# So am I being a friend or an asshole here? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 10, 2001, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993 "2001-07-10T21:19:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/21 "2001-07-11T04:23:45Z")
I don’t care if she’s 14 or 40, you were an asshole. What gives you the right to harsh on her because she doesn’t live up to YOUR inflexible standards? I think the telling remark is: Red dragoN 60: you think if it was harmless, I would be having this conversation with you? Red dragoN 60: it is harming me Yeah right. She drank and it gave you the opportunity to do what straightedgers like to do most, get into a holier-than-thou rant. Grow up. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/22 "2001-07-11T05:32:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*I don’t care if she’s 14 or 40, you were an asshole. What gives you the right to harsh on her because she doesn’t live up to YOUR inflexible standards? I think the telling remark is: > > Red dragoN 60: you think if it was harmless, I would be having this conversation with you? > Red dragoN 60: it is harming me > > Yeah right. She drank and it gave you the opportunity to do what straightedgers like to do most, get into a holier-than-thou rant. Grow up. \*\* Fuck off, when you see so many loved ones lose themselves, say that again. I care about her. I overreacted. I realized that. I am going to say something to her soon about it, apologizing for my tone. It hurt me to see her going the same way I have seen others before they slip. And don’t make generalizations. My inflexible standards? I am okay if she chooses to do that, I just wanted her to know how it affects me. I try to be accepting and mindful of everything. Sometimes I err. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/23 "2001-07-11T05:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*Grow up. \*\* Now this just _has_ to qualify as the dumbest remark I’ve seen all day. **He’s 16 years old**! Do you _really_ expect him to have the kind of wisdom to choose his words more carefully that one only gains with time and maturity? Please. **red\_dragon60** , it’s clear that your heart is in the right place and that your advice was entirely correct, even if stated a bit harshly. A 14 year old girl has no business getting _drunk and naked_ with 21 year old men. It spells Danger with a capital D. However, it’s obvious from reading her reaction to your approach that you aren’t convincing her with your methods. I’d recommend making an appointment with your high school guidance counselor and discussing your dilemma with him or her. They’re (supposed to be) trained in working with teens “at risk” (and I believe she is, if she’s already stripping naked with much older men and drinking and “partying” until she’s drunk.) Ask them for advice as to how you should handle your interactions with your friend. Hopefully they’ll have some good suggestions and advice. The fact that you’re a non-drinker is completely irrelevant. _Anyone_, whether they drink or not, would be remiss in not saying _something_ to a girl this age when she giddily announced her behaviour to them as if there were nothing wrong with it. There is. * * * Jeg elsker dig, Thomas ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/24 "2001-07-11T05:50:45Z")
When **Chas.E** moves into the pit and says ‘Grow Up’ to a 16 y.o. punk, and then **Red\_Dragon** , the piss-ant 16 year old replies and tells him to ‘fuck off’, then _yes_ there is a little more of a problem here. As I stated before, **Red** needs to get off the computer and get a real life, unless he’s afraid someone IRL is going to get tired of his whiny shit and bust his ass. My bet is it will be Matt, that sly dog… ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/25 "2001-07-11T05:52:58Z")
Hell, I’m just glad you didn’t kick her ass. We’ve been having something of a problem lately in my burg with young sXe kids whomping on people at shows for _daring_ to drink in their presence. Don’t worry about coming off like a sanctimonious asshole… that’s what straightedgers do best. At 14, X probably doesn’t have the sense realize that you just might find her actions a bit troubling. The only advice I can give you is to not sweat it. If you feel like you need to tell her parents, then do it. For the sake of sXe’s good name everywhere, though, don’t let this and the inevitable future transgressions that we untermensch will commit lead you to become one of those hardline assholes. Please don’t hurt me… the Teen Idles are one of my favorite bands… Love, black455 after 5 PBRs ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/26 "2001-07-11T06:09:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nothing But Net \* > \*\*When **Chas.E** moves into the pit and says ‘Grow Up’ to a 16 y.o. punk, and then **Red\_Dragon** , the piss-ant 16 year old replies and tells him to ‘fuck off’, then _yes_ there is a little more of a problem here. > > As I stated before, **Red** needs to get off the computer and get a real life, unless he’s afraid someone IRL is going to get tired of his whiny shit and bust his ass. > > My bet is it will be Matt, that sly dog… \*\* I see. So **red\_dragon60** speaks harshly to someone he cares about in an effort to make her understand how dangerous her behaviour is and that makes him an asshole, a piss-ant, a punk and a whiny shit. But you and **Chas.E.** can go off on him for _his_ behaviour and because you’re doing it in “The Pit”, that makes it ok? \ Now exactly _who_ are the judgemental ones here? * * * Jeg elsker dig, Thomas ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/27 "2001-07-11T06:12:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nothing But Net \* > \*\*When **Chas.E** moves into the pit and says ‘Grow Up’ to a 16 y.o. punk, and then **Red\_Dragon** , the piss-ant 16 year old replies and tells him to ‘fuck off’, then _yes_ there is a little more of a problem here. > \*\* I thought that was what you do in the Pit. And saying I need to spend more time off the net? With a name like Nothing But Net, I remind you of the case of Pot vs. Kettle. I believe the verdict was _black._ Black455, I am really indifferent to other teens drinking. Lassiz faire (sp) I guess. But with something so deeply personal as this happening to someone I love, I couldn’t stay silent. To quote Marcos, “in this world, silence equals death.” And I am trying not to be an asshole to her, or anyone else. I mess up though. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/28 "2001-07-11T06:15:28Z")
He dissed **Chas.E** , that’s what I was referring to. Or has everyone around here lost the concept of _respect_? Guess so… ---
**Author:** ![Chas.E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Chas.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chas.E)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/29 "2001-07-11T06:17:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > \*\ ***He’s 16 years old**! Do you _really_ expect him to have the kind of wisdom to choose his words more carefully that one only gains with time and maturity? Please. > > …I’d recommend making an appointment with your high school guidance counselor and discussing your dilemma with him or her.\*\* I don’t expect him to be mature, I just think he’s an idiot to run around acting like he’s the mature one in that exchange when he’s reacting irrationally out of fear because of his own childhood traumas about drinking. Perhaps the advice should more correctly have been stated “grow up, go through your OWN life experiences and struggles, and maybe THEN you’ll have the right to act so sanctimoniously. But probably you’ll still just be an asshole.” And boy is that quip about HS guidance counsellors bad advice. Haven’t you heard of what has been happening in schools lately? In the post-columbine era, they’re more interested in profiling kids into good/bad/potential threats than in dealing with problems. If this kid narcs on the girl, he’ll screw her up for life, far more than the drinking would. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/30 "2001-07-11T06:22:49Z")
Red, I read you post late last night, and the major comment I’d like to make about your convo with X, is that you really tackled the subject of your concerns at the wrong time. She was still in a post-partying high mood, and was almost guaranteed to respond negatively. Advice to for the future? Talk to your mum about your concerns (I know your relationship with your dad isn’t great). Keep any conversations you have with X regarding her partying habits about her safety, and remember that while alcohol may be increasing any danger in which she is placing herself, it’s not the only factor to be taken into account. Try talking to her when she’s stone cold sober (or hungover), and remember that you are more likely to get a positive response if you leave your personal opinions about the evils of alcohol _per se_ out of the conversation. Keep this focused on how she is endangering her only well-being, don’t let it become part of a personal crusade to institute temperance among teens. And lastly - this screams out for adult intervention. See if you can persuade her to seek it; if you can’t, you might have to make the very tough decision to involve trusted adults at the risk of losing X’s friendship. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/31 "2001-07-11T06:31:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by red\_dragon60 \* > \*\* > Black455, I am really indifferent to other teens drinking. Lassiz faire (sp) I guess. But with something so deeply personal as this happening to someone I love, I couldn’t stay silent. To quote Marcos, “in this world, silence equals death.” And I am trying not to be an asshole to her, or anyone else. I mess up though. \*\* Hey man, we’ve all got a bit of browneye in us, but from what I can tell, you have significantly less in you than most straightedgers (the lack of Xs around your username tipped me off). You raised perfectly reasonable objections to Ms. X’s actions. A 14 year old has no business getting drunk and nekkid with people seven years older than herself. She chose to give you the gory details of her weekend, and, knowing your history and you beliefs, she should have expected the reaction she got. Don’t let it get to you, though. ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/32 "2001-07-11T06:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by red\_dragon60 \* > With a name like Nothing But Net, I remind you of the case of Pot vs. Kettle. I believe the verdict was _black._ I ain’t stalking 14 year olds my man. You shouldn’t be either. Even if you’re only 16. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/33 "2001-07-11T06:36:15Z")
How old are _you_, **Chas**? We’ve already determined from many, many other threads how old you _act_, but I’m curious as to your actual age. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/34 "2001-07-11T06:38:24Z")
Stalking her? Where the fuck did that come from? Jeez, sounds like there’s more than one person in this thread who should consider growing up. :rolleyes: Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/35 "2001-07-11T06:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chas.E \* > \*\*I don’t expect him to be mature, I just think he’s an idiot to run around acting like he’s the mature one in that exchange when he’s reacting irrationally out of fear because of his own childhood traumas about drinking. Perhaps the advice should more correctly have been stated “grow up, go through your OWN life experiences and struggles, and maybe THEN you’ll have the right to act so sanctimoniously. But probably you’ll still just be an asshole.” > > And boy is that quip about HS guidance counsellors bad advice. Haven’t you heard of what has been happening in schools lately? In the post-columbine era, they’re more interested in profiling kids into good/bad/potential threats than in dealing with problems. If this kid narcs on the girl, he’ll screw her up for life, far more than the drinking would. > \*\* **Chas.E.** , with all due respect, I don’t think **red\_dragon60** made any effort to present himself as mature in that exchange. If anything, he questioned his own reaction enough to come ask _us_ for our feedback and reaction to how he _did_ handle it. You seem to keep forgetting that we’re talking about a 14 year old and a 16 year old here. At least he _had_ the maturity to know he needed advice and the maturity to _ask_ for it instead of just going about thinking himself so right that he needn’t bother. This is how young people learn. Let’s try to help him instead of labeling him and/or condemning him. As for the advice on going to the counselor, please read my post again. I did not suggest that he “narc on” his friend. For all I know that girl doesn’t even go to the same school he does. What I told him to do is to “ask them for advice as to how [he] should handle [his] interactions with [his] friend.” That’s not the same as “tell on her and get her in trouble with the school.” Perhaps they’d advise talking to her when she’s sober. Or maybe they’d suggest he talk to her parents - or his parents, and have _them_ talk to the girl’s parents. I don’t know. I’m not a counselor and I have no training in dealing with teens who are experimenting with sex and alcohol, so any advice _I_ might give him could have as damaging results as what he’s already done. The point is that he’s asked us for advice and I think the best thing he can do is talk to an adult who knows more about dealing with this situation than either he or we do. ---
**Author:** ![red\_dragon60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@red\_dragon60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/red_dragon60)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/36 "2001-07-11T06:40:54Z")
Well, I am gonna see my shrink Thursday, and I am gonna bring this up. Already encountered the horrors of guidance counselors. Esprix, I agree. Geez NBN, can I say you stalk everyone you talk to that is 2 years younger than you? ---
**Author:** ![blur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dbc845/32.png) [@blur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blur)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/37 "2001-07-11T06:41:01Z")
Red, what your going through is tough. I’ve been through basically the same thing. You did come across as kind of a dick in there, but your intentions are good. In fact coming off as a dick might not be a bad thing in this case. Someone has to tell her what she’s doing is wrong. If you care about her, and it sounds like you do, try talking to her again, when you both calm down. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/38 "2001-07-11T06:45:45Z")
**NBN** and **Chas** “Mr. Personal Responsibility” **.E** : What **Esprix** said… …hic… ---
**Author:** ![Nothing\_But\_Net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e47c2d/32.png) [@Nothing\_But\_Net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nothing_But_Net)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/39 "2001-07-11T06:47:18Z")
Out of this group, who is going to suggest sucking cocks _first_? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993/40 "2001-07-11T06:51:02Z")
Oh! My! G-D! I’m simply horrified. **Nothing But Net** , go the hell away. You make me sick. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-am-i-being-a-friend-or-an-asshole-here/71993.md?page=3)