# So... any idea why we're selling music on vinyl again? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801 "2012-05-13T20:11:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/21 "2012-05-14T01:28:52Z")
> [@Pitchmeister](#): > > Some people prefer the haptic experience of a record. Especially in the age of downloads, having not just a CD, but something that’s a lot bigger, with nicer cover art and such, can maybe add to your enjoyment of the music. Most modern records also come with a download code, so that problem is taken care of as well. > > Plus, it sets you apart from the unwashed masses, I’m sure that’s a factor as well. I think this is pretty much it (although I had to look up what “haptic” means). I think a related factor is the social aspect-- we’ve got a home media server that has however many months of digital music on it, but when we’re entertaining it’s a lot easier to say to a guest “flip through these milk crates and find a record you like” than “browse through 15 gigs of digital media and/or streaming feeds and find something”. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/22 "2012-05-14T02:23:52Z")
They sell turntables and vinyl to the same people who buy Monster speaker and audio cables. Just my guess. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/23 "2012-05-14T03:11:34Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > I mean, why buy on CD? Why not just buy a digital copy? Because most digital downloads that people buy are well short of the audio quality of a CD. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/24 "2012-05-14T03:35:03Z")
There are three huge disadvantages to vinyl that mean it is never coming back: 1. Surface noise 2. Degradability of the medium 3. Weight! (Moving records is really _no fun_) That said, I must take issue with those who think people who like vinyl are chumps. I’ve listened to a ton of both classical and pop music on vinyl. Sticking just with records in very good condition, vinyl runs the gamut of sounding horrible to sounding crystal clear, as though the musicians were right there in the room with you. Especially with the sound of an acoustic guitar or a string quartet, the sound of the strings really comes through (when vinyl is at its best). I’ve never gotten that kind of super clarity from a CD. In fact, when it comes to classical music in particular, CDs always sound somewhat frosted over and distant. At the same time, surface noise is intolerable when listening to classical music, so if given a choice between a record and a CD of the same thing, I’d probably choose the CD. It’s already for digital ripping for my iPhone too. I think the CD-versus-vinyl debate is pretty moot unless you think CD is the last format we’ll ever need. I’ve heard some people say that we’ll never need anything better than CD because we could never tell the difference. I firmly disagree with that. We need a better format for people who care about audio quality. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/25 "2012-05-14T03:44:28Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > There are three huge disadvantages to vinyl that mean it is never coming back: > > 1. Surface noise > 2. Degradability of the medium > 3. Weight! (Moving records is really _no fun_) > > That said, I must take issue with those who think people who like vinyl are chumps. I’ve listened to a ton of both classical and pop music on vinyl. Sticking just with records in very good condition, vinyl runs the gamut of sounding horrible to sounding crystal clear, as though the musicians were right there in the room with you. Especially with the sound of an acoustic guitar or a string quartet, the sound of the strings really comes through (when vinyl is at its best). > > I’ve never gotten that kind of super clarity from a CD. In fact, when it comes to classical music in particular, CDs always sound somewhat frosted over and distant. > > At the same time, surface noise is intolerable when listening to classical music, so if given a choice between a record and a CD of the same thing, I’d probably choose the CD. It’s already for digital ripping for my iPhone too. > > I think the CD-versus-vinyl debate is pretty moot unless you think CD is the last format we’ll ever need. I’ve heard some people say that we’ll never need anything better than CD because we could never tell the difference. I firmly disagree with that. We need a better format for people who care about audio quality. I think, objectively, the “last format” we’ll need is digital. Not mp3s, but something lossless. I don’t see any reason to keep records or CDs around once FLAC or WAV players become standard, at that point the only contributing factor on quality is editing and playback/recording equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/26 "2012-05-14T04:09:09Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I think, objectively, the “last format” we’ll need is digital. Not mp3s, but something lossless. I don’t see any reason to keep records or CDs around once FLAC or WAV players become standard, at that point the only contributing factor on quality is editing and playback/recording equipment. Right. It’s going to be something we can send in files to each other. The necessity of owning a physical medium like a CD or record is absurd in this day and age. ---
**Author:** ![Time\_Stranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Time\_Stranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Time_Stranger)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/27 "2012-05-14T04:10:38Z")
I work part-time at a comic/record store, and vinyl is what is keeping our shop afloat. We’ve almost completely removed our CD section, and probably 80% of the store is vinyl. We have people of all ages buy it, but I’d say a lot of it is 20-something hipsters or music nerds. I think its a “cool” status thing for them. It helps that our store has been around a couple decades and therefore has a lot of used options, and it is also located in a indie-music-oriented university town. A lot of local bands only release on 7in and then make MP3s available online, and a huge amount of current indie bands release on vinyl. Personally I think it’s one last hurrah before physical media for music dies out completely, but I’d love to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/28 "2012-05-14T04:27:25Z")
> [@Time\_Stranger](#): > > I work part-time at a comic/record store, and vinyl is what is keeping our shop afloat. We’ve almost completely removed our CD section, and probably 80% of the store is vinyl. We have people of all ages buy it, but I’d say a lot of it is 20-something hipsters or music nerds. I think its a “cool” status thing for them. It helps that our store has been around a couple decades and therefore has a lot of used options, and it is also located in a indie-music-oriented university town. A lot of local bands only release on 7in and then make MP3s available online, and a huge amount of current indie bands release on vinyl. Personally I think it’s one last hurrah before physical media for music dies out completely, but I’d love to be wrong. This sounds remarkably similar to an independent music/comic store in an indie-music-oriented university town that I used to frequent. I wonder if we are thinking of the same store. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/29 "2012-05-14T04:32:18Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > There are three huge disadvantages to vinyl that mean it is never coming back: > > 1. Surface noise > 2. Degradability of the medium > 3. Weight! (Moving records is really _no fun_) > > That said, I must take issue with those who think people who like vinyl are chumps. I’ve listened to a ton of both classical and pop music on vinyl. Sticking just with records in very good condition, vinyl runs the gamut of sounding horrible to sounding crystal clear, as though the musicians were right there in the room with you. Especially with the sound of an acoustic guitar or a string quartet, the sound of the strings really comes through (when vinyl is at its best). > > I’ve never gotten that kind of super clarity from a CD. In fact, when it comes to classical music in particular, CDs always sound somewhat frosted over and distant. Since you literally can’t get the dynamic range of a CD out of vinyl it comes down to how well it was recorded in the first place. Can’t remember where I read it but Michael Hedges worked back and forth between digital and analog to get the sound he was looking for (digitally). IMO, you can hear it in his recordings. There’s a very natural, three dimensional feel to his work. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/30 "2012-05-14T06:53:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Since you literally can’t get the dynamic range of a CD out of vinyl it comes down to how well it was recorded in the first place. Can’t remember where I read it but Michael Hedges worked back and forth between digital and analog to get the sound he was looking for (digitally). IMO, you can hear it in his recordings. There’s a very natural, three dimensional feel to his work. When I hear the superior specs of CDs, I don’t doubt them. I assume there is some other qualitative, not quantitative difference than can make vinyl sound superior in some situations. Such as the type of distortion, etc. But again, I won’t say vinyl is superior or anything like that as it’s flaws are too great. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/31 "2012-05-14T07:14:03Z")
I’m fairly sure that whatever aural qualities you care to mention about vinyl, they can be emulated by a sound waveform encoded on a CD. If not, they can DEFINITELY be emulated by a lossless digital format (assuming a sound editor really cares enough to add the effect before mixdown). ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/32 "2012-05-14T07:27:43Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > I’m fairly sure that whatever aural qualities you care to mention about vinyl, they can be emulated by a sound waveform encoded on a CD. If not, they can DEFINITELY be emulated by a lossless digital format (assuming a sound editor really cares enough to add the effect before mixdown). All I really care about is that in-the-room feeling. I’ve never gotten that from a CD. Gimme that and all is well. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/33 "2012-05-14T10:32:32Z")
Lossless audio compression just takes CD-quality audio (44khz 16 bit stereo) and compresses it, right? So lossless or not, the cd-vs-vinyl argument still stands. Even at higher (96khz) sample rates you’re still going to get quantization errors when compared to a true analogue quantity. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/34 "2012-05-14T13:30:20Z")
Well, for the folks “into technology” so to speak there is one factor. The coolness of how vinyl works. I mean you have this disk, with scatches in it, and you run a needle across it and it produces music. How fracking cool is that? To me its kinda like holograms, even when the math, science and technology is all explained, you just gotta go “it still seems like magic to me” (well, I do anyway). As a matter of fact, the other day I was kinda lamenting that vinyl would be very hard to find and someday I wouln’t be able to easiyl show little kiddies this almost too simple yet magical method of recording and playing music. And I am not even into music and never really have been. Though I suspect only a small fraction of the vinyl people are into it for the magic technology aspect. ---
**Author:** ![alphamatix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@alphamatix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphamatix)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/35 "2012-05-14T13:48:08Z")
Many cds these days are brickwall limited to the point of being unlistenable. CDs may have wider dynamic range but artists and mastering engineers are not using it. They are instead shoving all the levels up as close to 0dB as they can so the quiet moments are just as loud as everything else. They basically have no dynamic range at all. Some very good albums are being ruined by this practice. (Go google “loudness wars” if you want to know more.) From what I’ve read on the interwebz, this is not happening with vinyl releases, probably because vinyl cannot physically handle the kind of brickwalling used on cds. That’s not to say that vinyl masters can’t have unlistenable compression or other undesirable flaws but generally it seems that better sounding masters are making it to vinyl than cd. I don’t deny that their is a ‘hipness’ component to the vinyl resurgence but there is also a real practical reason to prefer vinyl these days, If I had to start my music collection over I might consider going the vinyl route. I would probably digitize the vinyl to FLAC as soon as I got home and listen to the digital copy (aka ‘needledrop’) from that point on. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/36 "2012-05-14T13:57:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Vinyl has always been reputed to sound better than digital media, and based on our cheap record player and small record collection - and some articles I’ve read on the topic but only partly understood - I think there’s something to it. So as far as I can tell the market for vinyl is audiophiles who want to listen to something that sounds better than what you get from iPods and similar devices, and some hangers-on who want to project the image that they’re more discerning than your average listener. > [@gaffa](#): > > No, it is not. Vinyl is inferior to CD even under optimum vinyl playback circumstances. Two equally well mastered releases of the same material, the CD has dramatically greater dynamic range, lacks the bass channel summing needed to avoid destroying the record cutting head, lacks the degrading of audio quality that happens as the groove radius gets tighter towards the end of the record and a number of other problems that CD let us see the ass end of years ago. > > Why does this myth persist? Because a huge number of CDs are poorly mastered. In order to sound louder, many, if not most pop records are heavily compressed. The greater dynamic range is thrown away. Especially in the early days of CDs, labels would routinely pull out the old analog masters of exisiting LPs and do a hasty re-mix for the digital conversion in order to get in on this new space-age format. Usually the original artists and producers were not involved in the effort, and the results were predictably inconsistent. It’s no surprise that the vinyl versions of most albums sounded much better in side-by-side comparisons. The industry quickly got better at making CDs, but the perception was hard to shake for many consumers. With today’s ultra-compressed MP3s, though, you probably _are_ getting a better product on vinyl, but not necessarily better than the CD. Still, it’s easy to lump MP3 and CD together as “digital” formats, even though they ain’t the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/37 "2012-05-14T13:59:15Z")
If my daughter wanted a turntable, she could have mine. I haven’t played vinyl in years. Most of our best albums have been put into record frames purchased at AC Moores and hung up on the basement wall. (Last night in the finale of Desperate Housewives they played a vinyl 45 - Johnny Mathis, “Wonderful Wonderful”, as per specific request of one character. I must admit I was crying my eyes out, it was a nice touch in an otherwise meh finale.) ---
**Author:** ![SunSandSuffering](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@SunSandSuffering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunSandSuffering)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/38 "2012-05-14T14:52:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, for the folks “into technology” so to speak there is one factor. The coolness of how vinyl works. I mean you have this disk, with scatches in it, and you run a needle across it and it produces music. How fracking cool is that? To me its kinda like holograms, even when the math, science and technology is all explained, you just gotta go “it still seems like magic to me” (well, I do anyway). > > As a matter of fact, the other day I was kinda lamenting that vinyl would be very hard to find and someday I wouln’t be able to easiyl show little kiddies this almost too simple yet magical method of recording and playing music. And I am not even into music and never really have been. > > Though I suspect only a small fraction of the vinyl people are into it for the magic technology aspect. When I was a kid I saved up crisp [chip?] packets and sent them off to get a “horror sounds” record. IT was a flexidisk mounted on its own fold-out cardboard frame with a tiny needle. You mounted the needle and turned it by hand and out came shrieks and howls and dracula noises. To me it was amazing especially in an era when reel-to-reel recorders were largely the only home recording medium and there were no personal sound systems of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/39 "2012-05-14T15:41:59Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Well, for the folks “into technology” so to speak there is one factor. The coolness of how vinyl works. I mean you have this disk, with scatches in it, and you run a needle across it and it produces music. How fracking cool is that? To me its kinda like holograms, even when the math, science and technology is all explained, you just gotta go “it still seems like magic to me” (well, I do anyway). > > As a matter of fact, the other day I was kinda lamenting that vinyl would be very hard to find and someday I wouln’t be able to easiyl show little kiddies this almost too simple yet magical method of recording and playing music. And I am not even into music and never really have been. > > Though I suspect only a small fraction of the vinyl people are into it for the magic technology aspect. Yeah, but… CDs USE FRIKKING LASER BEAMS! ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801/40 "2012-05-14T16:00:24Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > How many 20-somethings and 30-somethings still have a turntable? I’m 35 and I do, and a Victrola as well. (No, I don’t play either very often.) My husband is an engineer and appreciates all sorts of engineering, especially stuff that now seems outdated or quaint. Like \*\*billfish \*\*said, it’s pretty awesome because it’s now all but disappeared - the rarity makes it important. NPR had a story, oh, year ago or more about some indy bands releasing only on vinyl. Apparently audiophiles think that it has a warmer sound. I don’t know if I buy that, or if that sound can’t be reproduced just as accurately and warmly digitally (as noted above), but that’s what the claim was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-any-idea-why-were-selling-music-on-vinyl-again/621801.md?page=3)