# So, apparently AI can create amazing optical illusions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** ai\ **Created:** [October 20, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845 "2023-10-20T16:27:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/41 "2023-10-21T13:19:15Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I’m feeling more useless every day. 😢 My post-retirement job involves a lot of graphic design (web design, social media, product marketing, etc.). I’ve used the entire Adobe suite of apps since they first hit the market, as well as other high end graphic and video apps. I know them like the back of my hand. I too was concerned with the coming of AI, but I now welcome it and use it to my advantage. As one example, instead of searching for and buying stock photos that are _close_ to my vision for a particular campaign, I can create it _exactly_ with AI (along with much tweaking). If anything, AI has allowed me to be more creative, not less. And, my understanding is that those who provide Adobe’s stock photography that Firefly uses get fairly compensated by Adobe (which they can certainly afford—their subscriptions ain’t cheap). ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/42 "2023-10-21T14:00:06Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I too was concerned with the coming of AI, but I now welcome it and use it to my advantage. Thanks Tibby, that’s an interesting and encouraging perspective. It does seem like, in these various AI threads we’ve had recently, for every poster who raises an alarm over the rise of AI, there’s another who is much more optimistic; saying “no, AI won’t put us all out of work, it will create whole new industries or at least, industry niches”. Though I have to admit, my most optimistic imagining of new AI-related jobs up to now was of dull, creativity-free, repetitive typing of instructions into prompt bars so that AI can do the real, interesting work. You paint (or tell AI to paint, hehe) a much rosier picture. It is a weird, transitional time in industries that are being affected by AI right now. Though I’m a web dev, I work with several graphic designers, and recently our manager passed along a message from his superiors to the designers that they shouldn’t use the new AI features that are now built into Adobe products. Or at least, if they did make use of AI assistance, keep it on the down-low. I think the fear is that if our clients get wind that we’re using AI to create their stuff, they’ll decide that they can just do the same thing in-house themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/43 "2023-10-21T14:00:55Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > > > avoiding any discussion of how this could be used by propagandists to use this to manipulate the public. > > In the grand list of problematic uses for AI art/photo rendering, “might be used for subliminal messages” ranks way the heck down. also, “manipulating through visuals” is as old as “visuals” … there is a reason Trump has an orange fake tan face and Biden looks like the skin on his forehead might tear any moment … they try to trick (manipulate) you into thinking that they are 20 years younger than they actually are and active, outdoorsy lumberjacks… this reckons the power of (traditional) image manipulation. and dont get me started on those filters in IG, etc… where everybody ends up with a face like the Kardashians … Or postcards with incredible blue sky, etc… so that (desire to manipulate) does come baked into any new technology … to be honest, I am way **more worried about deep-fake vids** than a hidden “send nudes” (I also read no-nudes) in the puppies, as the video may bypass the rational hemisphere and goes straigt to your reptile-brain (and subsecuent reactions, that may come from the same part of the brain). Just look at the gaza-hospital explosion news debacle ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/44 "2023-10-21T14:30:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I can definitely see it in the tiny images, but even sitting back from the screen, the dog one doesn’t really resolve well. I thought it said “NO NUDES”. The “S” is hard to make out and the “E” is practically invisible, although it’s remarkable how clear it is when the image is very small. I suppose it helps if you’re severely shortsighted like I am; without my glasses I see “SEND NUDES” immediately. I have no problem with the “S”, but I do admit the “E” could use with standing out a little more. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/45 "2023-10-21T15:04:02Z")
> [@solost](#): > > The quality is astonishing. Man, some of the hands are still really messed up, though. But yes, the overall effect is really impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/46 "2023-10-21T15:38:31Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Man, some of the hands are still really messed up, though. This tool is based off Stable Diffusion 1.5, which was released a year ago. (Precisely a year ago yesterday, actually.) Much more recent AIs are much better with hands (but not perfect). ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/47 "2023-10-21T15:41:09Z")
relevent tangent: why is it so hard for IA to get hands right? … seems fairly straightforward for most people … ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/48 "2023-10-21T15:50:12Z")
Reason I’ve seen is that hands are made up of lots of small moving parts with tons of different positions. Which means that sample photos of hands are inconsistent and that there’s a lot of possibilities for messing it up when rendering. If you were to make a model of just hands holding/using silverware, it would be fine. And, as noted, more recent AI models are much better at it than the nightmarish early results. As an aside, hands are one of the hardest things to learn to get correct for most people learning life drawing as well. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/49 "2023-10-21T15:53:00Z")
Classic Terry Gilliam drawing. [![Imgur](https://i.imgur.com/hPdBoWm.jpeg "imgur.com") ](https://imgur.com/hPdBoWm) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/50 "2023-10-21T15:55:22Z")
And what the AIs screw up most often is the number of fingers. After two or three, accurate counts of things is a next-level task for neural nets. And for most things, if there were supposed to be five but someone instead put in six, we’d still consider it fairly accurate. But counts of fingers are both high enough to need actual counting, and have a definite, correct value. ---
**Author:** ![merrick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@merrick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/merrick)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/51 "2023-10-21T16:29:05Z")
AI image generators have a systematic problem with repeating elements, because they don’t try to count, they generate low-level bits of image first and then extrapolate to what fits next to them. If the thing you’re most likely to see next to a single element is another repeating element, you hit the bananana problem. And as @Chronos said, fingers are numerous enough to hit this and few enough that the errors are obvious. If you want another example, ask an AI to draw a sailing ship. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/52 "2023-10-21T16:40:43Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > > [@solost](#): > > > > The quality is astonishing. > > Man, some of the hands are still really messed up, though. But yes, the overall effect is really impressive. Oh yeah, I didn’t notice the weird hands in some of the pics at first. > [@Al128](#): > > why is it so hard for IA to get hands right? … seems fairly straightforward for most people … Not at all. When I took figure drawing classes in college on the way to getting a BFA, hands were the most difficult part of the body to draw. At least for me, it was. Of course, as a human, my particular problems with getting hands right didn’t include getting the number of fingers wrong. Pretty much always 5 or fewer per hand. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/53 "2023-10-21T16:41:56Z")
thx - and once again, I will be taking a deep bow to the collective wisdom of the SD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/54 "2023-10-21T17:23:50Z")
A few example images involving hands that I generated in Dall-E 3 over the last week. [![](https://i.postimg.cc/3wW14VYp/handsamples-grid.jpg) ](https://i.postimg.cc/3wW14VYp/handsamples-grid.jpg) There is some cherry-picking, but there really are more pretty good hands than disasters in DE3. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/55 "2023-10-21T17:40:46Z")
In general, current gen Art AI is much better at hands. If the prompt is hand-specific (“Young man waving at camera”) it does even better since it’s ‘concentrating’ on it. If the prompt/render has nothing directly to do with hands, it’s more likely to flub it especially in an otherwise complicated render. For true complication, ask for people “holding hands”. Running results on Bing, Midjourney and SDXL still gives results ranging from unconvincing to looking like two squids battling over an apple. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/56 "2023-10-21T18:38:14Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > like two squids battling over an apple. I would watch this on PPV if someone could make it happen. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/57 "2023-10-21T18:50:16Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > > [@Jophiel](#): > > > > like two squids battling over an apple. > > I would watch this on PPV if someone could make it happen. Will [still images do](https://www.bing.com/images/create/photorealistic-image-of-two-squids-battling-over-a/65341cdfe24e472f93e0fb4e975f920e?FORM=GENCRE)? ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/58 "2023-10-21T19:14:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > A few example images involving hands that I generated in Dall-E 3 over the last week. Thanks in advance for the nightmares I’m going to have tonight 😆 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/59 "2023-10-21T20:27:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > counts of fingers are both high enough to need actual counting, and have a definite, correct value. Polydactyls exist, as do amputees. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2023, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845/60 "2023-10-21T20:56:03Z")
And Art AI is _super_ inclusive of them! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-apparently-ai-can-create-amazing-optical-illusions/991845.md?page=4)