# So, are ITRC's suggestions well-advised? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 24, 2015, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501 "2015-02-24T10:04:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/1 "2015-02-24T10:04:20Z")
First of all, I apologize if it sounded like I was insulting ITRchampion personally. My intent was simply to criticise his suggestions as ill-advised. It was his suggestions that seemed ill-advised (“irrational” would be hyperbolic), not Mr. Champion himself as might have been inferred from my unfortunate phrasing. So let’s explore whether or not his offerings are, in fact, ill-advised. This is a three-part question. It probably should be three different IMHO threads, but I seem to be discouraged to post anywhere but the Pit, so I’ll just post it all here. _**Part I. What are the three top problems facing U.S.A. (or more generally the world) today?**_ I’d like each of us to nominate a Top Five. Mine would include: [ul] [li]Environmental degradation. I’m not sure AGW itself is even the biggest threat, but habitation destruction in general (including ocean acidifcation) is one of our biggest problems.[/li] [li]Rising inequalities in wealth and income. I don’t accept the slippery slope (“If you don’t want the top 0.1% to have 99.999% of the wealth, that means they can’t have more than 0.1%. Bah!”). But severe unpurposeful inequality does have disadvantages. Dopers who disagree [checks forum] are not using their full cognitive resources.[/li] [li]Corruption of politics so that pro-business policies are pursued rather than intelligent populist or humanitarian policies. Increasingly it’s become clear that modern media, despite its impressive technical specs, has not improved political debate. The problem is worsening in America: 4 or 5 right-wing SCOTUS’ers are corrupting politics with both hands; schoolboards are banning pro-science textbooks, etc.[/li] One tragedy which I blame on Congress and Administrations serving rich Wall St. interests, are recent misregulations. Such greed and corruption has serious disadvantages, and exacerbates the income inequality noted above. [li]Dysfunctional politics. Perhaps this should be considered just a corollary of the preceding, but I think its importance stands. Political support for vested interests is as old as politics. What’s changed recently is that amity and discourse are missing. The two (once big-tent) parties have become symptoms of a fracture. Islam has its Shia-Sunni schism; today’s America has its Tea Party / anti-Tea schism. (Or rather set of schisms – Life/choice, guns/no, tax/no, labor unions/no, religious/no, WASP or similar / “ethnic”, etc. – with little offered in the way of broad tents.)[/li] [li]To complete a list of five, I’ll note that with wars in Ukraine, Syria, Iraq, etc., world peace itself is in jeopardy. With the U.S. de facto “policeman” for the world, it’s especially important that U.S. leadership makes intelligent humanitarian decisions.[/li][/ul] _ **Part II. What changes can you suggest to U.S. government principles to effect good change?** _ This is the subject of an antecedent thread, but I have little or nothing to offer. Certainly events on the ground are charging the wrong way. Textbook committees are increasingly denying good science to schoolchildren. With smears, gerrymandering, etc. electoral politics has become more of a useless travesty than an intelligent debate. It might be good to “reboot” the whole system somehow. E.g., fire both Houses of Congress, arrange a national Parliamentary election set up to encourage third parties. The first Parliament would have the added responsibility of wrting a new Constitution! One of the rights the new Parliament would have – and God help us if the irrational side of the aisle has the majority – would be to Fire givernment leaders at any level – racist sheriffs, school boards twisted by religious propaganda, bullying beat-cops. There I’ve said it. Denounce this bold scheme if you like. I don’t set great store in it; the schisms are entrenched; it addresses none of my five top problems. Perhaps my solution is just as stupid as ITRChampion’s. _ **Part III. Reconcile the proposed government problems with problems identified in Part I** _ I hope Mr. Champion answers Part I. If he doesn’t show up, can anyone else help? What sorts of American problems is he concerned about such that he would suggest: > [@What would you change about the US government if you could start from scratch?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-change-about-the-us-government-if-you-could-start-from-scratch/713268/40): > > The Bill of Rights should include one or more amendments protecting our economic freedoms, in addition to the existing amendments protecting personal freedoms. It should include the following rules: > > [ul] > [li]The government may not establish any maximum or minimum price for the sale of any item.[/li][li]The government may not force the American people to purchase anything.[/li][li]The government may not pass any law specifically designed to favor any one private corporation or union.[/li][li]The government may not prohibit anyone from buying or selling anything, except for the following reasons: the sale is fraudulent, the item in question threatens someone’s physical safety[/li][li]No one may be forced to join a union.[/li][/ul] For the first, what’s his concern? Should hoarders be allowed to get big profits in a flood? Should the government be allowed to peg its excise tax on something to its market value? Was the JFK takedown of steel prices a great tragedy? In any case, I don’t see a big problem here. I won’t go through all of them. Frankly these seem bizarre to me. I’d ask Mr. Champion about “No one may be forced to join a union.” I assume he means as a condition of employment. Should homeowner associations be allowed to compel maintenance charges? Membership in bar or AMA is often a condition for employment; is this also wrong? Frankly I’m inspired by the stories of what labor unions accomplished a few generations ago, and think the weakness of unions today is a net minus for the U.S., not a plus. On another matter: Overcoming the Amygdala Hijack [QUOTE=[Amygdala hijack - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala_hijack)] From the thalamus, a part of the stimulus goes directly to the amygdala while another part is sent to the neocortex or “thinking brain”. If the amygdala perceives a match to the stimulus, i.e., if the record of experiences in the hippocampus tells the amygdala that it is a fight, flight or freeze situation, then the amygdala triggers the HPA (hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal) axis and hijacks the rational brain. This emotional brain activity processes information milliseconds earlier than the rational brain, so in case of a match, the amygdala acts before any possible direction from the neocortex can be received. If, however, the amygdala does not find any match to the stimulus received with its recorded threatening situations, then it acts according to the directions received from the neo-cortex. When the amygdala perceives a threat, it can lead that person to react irrationally and destructively. [/QUOTE] In a thread mentioning the correlation between amygdala size and political orientation, one right-winger wrote, in effect, “Yes, but the larger amygdala gives us greater empathy.” I’d like a cite for this; the amygdala generally outputs fear or disgust. Did the Doper mean “empathy with another who’s experiencing fear or disgust”? I’d ask all of us with over-reacting amygdala – which tends to suppress cortical decision-making, see quote – to relax and analyse society and its problems rationally. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/2 "2015-02-24T14:28:00Z")
Shut up, troll. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/3 "2015-02-24T14:38:55Z")
tl;dr: Link? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/4 "2015-02-24T15:16:33Z")
I was also wondering about this… > [@](#): > > Part I. What are the **three top problems** facing U.S.A. (or more generally the world) today? > > I’d like each of us to nominate a \*\*Top Five. \*\*Mine would include: You’re fighting your own hypothetical within the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/5 "2015-02-24T22:09:34Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > First of all, I apologize if it sounded like I was insulting ITRchampion personally. That’s nice. What the hell are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/6 "2015-02-24T22:15:28Z")
In America: 1. Media bias 2. Double standards 3. Persecution 4. Inflation 5. Need for health care reform In the world: 1. Pollution 2. Persecution 3. Refusal to stand up to aggressors/regimes 4. Media bias 5. Double standards ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/7 "2015-02-24T22:54:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In America: > > 1. Media bias [Probably not.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Liberal_media) > [@Velocity](#): > > 1. Double standards . . . You are not, I hope thinking of anything even remotely like [this](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racism_is_a_codeword_for_anti-white) or [this](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Reverse_racism) or [this](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Men%27s_Rights)? :dubious: > [@Velocity](#): > > 1. Persecution 😕 Of whom by whom? > [@Velocity](#): > > 1. Inflation The 1970s called . . . WTF are you talking about?! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e79b87/32.png) [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Joker_and_the_Thief)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/8 "2015-02-24T23:01:53Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > _ **Part III. Reconcile the proposed government problems with problems identified in Part I** _ > > I hope Mr. Champion answers Part I. If he doesn’t show up, can anyone else help? What sorts of American problems is he concerned about such that he would suggest: > > For the first, what’s his concern? Should hoarders be allowed to get big profits in a flood? Should the government be allowed to peg its excise tax on something to its market value? Was the JFK takedown of steel prices a great tragedy? In any case, I don’t see a big problem here. > > I won’t go through all of them. Frankly these seem bizarre to me. I’d ask Mr. Champion about “No one may be forced to join a union.” I assume he means as a condition of employment. Should homeowner associations be allowed to compel maintenance charges? Membership in bar or AMA is often a condition for employment; is this also wrong? > > Frankly I’m inspired by the stories of what labor unions accomplished a few generations ago, and think the weakness of unions today is a net minus for the U.S., not a plus. In the absence of a free market price, goods just go to whoever gets there first. That’s even less efficient. Allowing sellers to set exorbitant prices in catastrophes encourages rational stockpiling of goods and incentives the rapid production and transportation of goods to market. Even Paul Krugman–liberal emiritus–[opposes price controls.](http://www.democraticunderground.com/110811214) As for unions, he’s quite clearly talking about labor unions, so your quip about homeowner’s associations is unfounded. There is also a distinct difference between professional licensing and labor unions, so that’s a non sequitar as well. Since you haven’t provided any other real reason for allowing the compulsion of Americans to monetarily support organizations intertwined with organized crime, I think this point is settled. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/9 "2015-02-25T16:51:26Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I’d ask all of us with over-reacting amygdala – which tends to suppress cortical decision-making, see quote – to relax and analyse society and its problems rationally. You’ll have to strap it down on the vivisection-table first. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/10 "2015-02-25T17:01:17Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > tl;dr: Link? This thread appears to be a response to [**ITR Champion** ’s post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18153029&postcount=40) (#40) in the thread [What would you change about the US government if you could start from scratch?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=18153029) Presumably, **septimus** opened this thread here in the Pit so he could use strong language like “Your suggestions are ill-advised.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/11 "2015-02-25T17:18:39Z")
> [@What would you change about the US government if you could start from scratch?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-would-you-change-about-the-us-government-if-you-could-start-from-scratch/713268/40): > > The Bill of Rights should include one or more amendments protecting our economic freedoms, in addition to the existing amendments protecting personal freedoms. It should include the following rules: > > - The government may not establish any maximum or minimum price for the sale of any item. Government-established minimum or maximum prices are often a bad idea with unfortunate unintended consequences, but I’m afraid that such a rule could also have unfortunate unintended consequences. There’s no way I’d support such an amendment without running it by a few economists first. > [@](#): > > - The government may not force the American people to purchase anything. I’m guessing this is a dig at the ACA for “forcing” the American people to purchase health insurance. But it might be interpreted as forbidding taxation in general, since taxes “force” Americans to “purchase” the services their taxes are spent on. And if it doesn’t forbid taxation, it removes one of the alternatives to it, making it more likely/necessary that the government has to get into the health care (e.g.) business directly. > [@](#): > > - The government may not pass any law specifically designed to favor any one private corporation or union. This one’s heart is in the right place, but I’d predict a nightmare of challenges to anything the government does, on the grounds that somebody benefitted from it and somebody else didn’t. > [@](#): > > - No one may be forced to join a union. Making America a “right-to-work” country, eh? This is currently an issue here in Illinois, thanks to our new governor, and I personally am not sure which side to support on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/12 "2015-02-25T17:44:02Z")
OP needs more cowbell. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2015, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/13 "2015-02-25T18:07:29Z")
No, his suggestions suck ass. 1- In general, the US doesn’t impose min or max price on things. But there are some things like interest rates that need some government oversight, else you might have credit card issuers slipping things like your interest rate goes to 2000% if you’re ever a day late with a payment. Sometimes price controls are necessary, as Nixon did in his term to fight runaway inflation. 2- The right not to purchase anything is obviously a slam against the ACA. One doesn’t have to purchase anything, but a tax may be imposed if you don’t. 3- Don’t have an example where a government passed a law to benefit one corporation or union. Perhaps this is a solution in search of a problem. 4- Looks like a slap at gun sales. Yes, we can and should prohibit the sale of some things. You shouldn’t be able to sell snake oil cancer treatments, for example. Or hand grenades. Or someone’s private photos without permission. 5- This is red meat for the right wing. The evil evil unions must be crushed, not because of their role in creating the middle class but because they are a source of revenue for Democratic candidates. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/14 "2015-02-26T01:39:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > No, his suggestions suck ass. Yes – indeed this is an understatement. In GD I inidicated that most rational observers would have a different stance than Mr. Champion. Apparently this was enough to get me a Warning. :eek: (I assume I’m on the brink of being BANNED now, so ask me any pressing personal questions before it’s too late. 🆒 ) It’s normal for us rational thinkers to have a different perspective from right-wingers with their irrational fear of government and disgust for the underpriveleged. But ITRC’s suggestions went way beyond the deep end for me. Not only were all of his suggestions stupid, and pointing in the wrong directions, but I was unable to fathom what viewpoint would lead an intelligent person to call for these “solutions.” What does he see the main “problems” of present-day America to be, that he calls for these “solutions”? WalMart isn’t unionized; is he afraid it will be and he’ll suddenly be paying 5 cents more for his underpants? I’d honestly like to hear an answer from ITRC. I don’t expect him to offer any intelligent thought, but it might be fun to watch the contemptible ideations of a right-wing American (who probably has an IQ significantly higher than most right-wingers) with his bloated amygdala … and strange twisted angry views. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/15 "2015-02-26T04:09:39Z")
Just so you know,\*\* ITR Champion\*\* has said he does not read threads in the pit, let alone post here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/16 "2015-02-26T14:52:13Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Just so you know,\*\* ITR Champion\*\* has said he does not read threads in the pit, let alone post here. Has anyone ever seen him and **Der Trihs** in the same place at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/17 "2015-02-26T15:09:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Has anyone ever seen him and **Der Trihs** in the same place at the same time? I can quite honestly say that I have not. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/18 "2015-02-26T15:32:54Z")
Wait. You give thought to the things that ITR Champion writes? Why the fuck would anyone do that? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/19 "2015-02-26T15:50:39Z")
I think if DT and ITRC collided, they would mutually annihilate and release energy. Or antimatter ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501/20 "2015-02-27T04:20:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The 1970s called . . . WTF are you talking about?! No, seriously, **Velocity,** what the **fuck** are you talking about, with this inflation bullshit?! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-itrcs-suggestions-well-advised/713501.md?page=2)