# So are malls dying or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2016, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807 "2016-02-01T02:24:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/41 "2016-02-02T01:16:19Z")
Denver appears to have several successful malls. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/42 "2016-02-02T10:54:53Z")
> [@BrassyPhrase](#): > > It’s a lot of different things. > The other part of that is the aging of the populace. I’ve known two people that have had knees replaced (one with very severe complications. ) They want to be close, if it’s just a cane or walker and temporary, they don’t want to walk through a million places. I think this is a big part of it. Ignoring the 1%, a lot of the wealth seems to be concentrating in the older demographic. Being one of those, I realize I haven’t been to a mall in two years. I don’t like the neighborhood, I don’t like the hucksters in kiosks hassling me, I don’t want to get dressed up and drive in from the 'burbs, and above all, _there is no place to sit down_ (save restaurants and a few hard benches). This thread is interesting, in that Macy’s announced their departure from our local mall last week. I think Sears is long gone too. I’ve barely darkened their doors since they made “Craftsman” a meaningless word, so I can’t be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/43 "2016-02-02T11:12:53Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > From that link: Hard to believe that as late as 2005 they still opened a new mall. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/44 "2016-02-02T11:20:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Even here they don’t make sense. It’s over 90 degrees most of the time. So you can either walk much farther between stores in sweltering heat (since parking lots have to be built in the middle rather than around the outside) or drive between stores. Outside heat can be dampened by shade and misting systems. Much cheaper than air conditioning. At the outdoor malls around me I see just as many people walking down sidewalks door to door and checking out stores as they do in the indoor malls. More actually since in indoor malls you have tons of people who are not actually shopping but just either walking for exercise or teenagers hanging out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/45 "2016-02-02T14:06:02Z")
It could. But at least at the ones we have here it isn’t. I forgot to mention that Orlando is a bit of a special case; being so touristy, we have endless numbers of outlet malls on the other side of town that do just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/46 "2016-02-02T14:15:42Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > When I was a kid, Macy’s was a store I associated vaguely with New York City. Maybe from _Miracle on 34th Street_? Not sure. It didn’t have bad associations. Then, eventually, it swallowed up a lot of department stores around the country, one of them being classic Indy retailer L.S. Ayres. Maybe it was Ayres’ time to go, but Macy’s was no improvement. Similar knowledge of Macy’s growing up. Then I went into a Macy’s in Augusta, Georgia, ca. 1989. WTF? This is like a really shitty version of Hudson’s, a Hudson’s wannabe. > [@](#): > > Oh, and they took over Marshall Field’s in Chicago, for fuck’s sake! Who the fuck is Marshall Field, and why is he buying all my Hudson’s? And changing the name? And making them worse? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/47 "2016-02-02T15:47:58Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > **Little Nemo** has a point. Indoor malls need to maintain a critical mass of stores or the whole thing goes out of business. There’s nothing creepier than a half empty mall. It’s a psychological thing. You can drive through a strip mall that’s half empty and ignore the empty storefronts. But with an indoor mall that’s half empty, you have to walk through it all and you feel the presence of the empty stores. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/48 "2016-02-02T16:28:33Z")
The Columbus, OH area is getting a brand new outlet mall, opening this summer. We’ve got two other malls that opened in the early 2000’s, Polaris and Easton. Around here, the malls just moved from the city to the suburbs. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/49 "2016-02-04T04:11:18Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It’s a psychological thing. You can drive through a strip mall that’s half empty and ignore the empty storefronts. But with an indoor mall that’s half empty, you have to walk through it all and you feel the presence of the empty stores. That’s an excellent point. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/50 "2017-06-01T07:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Between 20% and 25% of the nation’s shopping malls will close in the next five years, according to a new report from Credit Suisse that predicts e-commerce will continue to pull shoppers away from bricks-and-mortar retailers. For many, the Wall Street firm’s finding may come as no surprise. Long-standing retailers are dying off as shoppers’ habits shift online. Credit Suisse expects apparel sales to represent 35% of all e-commerce by 2030, up from 17% today. Traditional mall anchors, such as Macy’s, J.C. Penney and Sears, have announced numerous store closings in recent months. Clothiers including American Apparel, Bebe and BCBG Max Azria have filed for bankruptcy. The report estimates that around 8,640 stores will close by the end of the year. > > Retail industry experts say Credit Suisse may have underestimated the scope of the upheaval. “It’s more in the 30% range,” Ron Friedman, a retail expert at accounting and advisory firm Marcum said of the share of malls that he predicts will close in the next five years. “There are a lot of malls that know they’re in big trouble.” > **[Up to 25% of U.S. shopping malls may close in the next five years, report says](https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-malls-closing-20170531-story.html)** > > Between 20% and 25% of the nation’s shopping malls will close in the next five years, according to a new report from Credit Suisse that predicts e-commerce will continue to pull shoppers away from bricks-and-mortar retailers. It’s been several years since I have been in a mall. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/51 "2017-06-01T16:37:17Z")
Interesting. The more open-air shopping plazas/complexes such as the WaterFront and WaterWorks seem to be doing good but the enclosed spaces are going the wayside even faster around here. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/52 "2017-06-01T17:41:15Z")
Yes. They just opened a new outdoor mall last year in Lynnfield MA (a pretty rich suburb), with lots of food and clothing stores. There were no bookstores until Amazon opened one of its first bricks-and-mortar shops. The local indoor malls still seem to be going strong. Northshore Mall is always packed, and has been since they rebuilt it some twenty years ago. Liberty Tree and Square One in Danvers and Saugus don’t look quite as good, but they’re not at al in trouble, with strong anchor stores. Downtown enclosed malls around the country seem to be failing – Rochester NY tore down its Midtown Plaza and Salt Lake City got rid of its _two_ downtown indoor malls, but it replaced them with a “Lifestyle Center” outdoor mall that is, I gather, doing well. But here in Boston, the downtown mall surrounding the Prudential Building still seems healthy. It has the only bookstore I know of that’s still _inside_ an indoor mall. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/53 "2017-06-01T19:39:28Z")
I was just reading about the [American Dream Meadowlands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands) mall. Supposedly the only enclosed mall “under construction” in the US. And “under construction” is being generous. Even a mall being built is dying. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/54 "2017-06-01T22:07:22Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Yes. They just opened a new outdoor mall last year in Lynnfield MA (a pretty rich suburb), with lots of food and clothing stores. There were no bookstores until Amazon opened one of its first bricks-and-mortar shops. > > The local indoor malls still seem to be going strong. Northshore Mall is always packed, and has been since they rebuilt it some twenty years ago. Liberty Tree and Square One in Danvers and Saugus don’t look quite as good, but they’re not at al in trouble, with strong anchor stores. > > Downtown enclosed malls around the country seem to be failing – Rochester NY tore down its Midtown Plaza and Salt Lake City got rid of its _two_ downtown indoor malls, but it replaced them with a “Lifestyle Center” outdoor mall that is, I gather, doing well. But here in Boston, the downtown mall surrounding the Prudential Building still seems healthy. It has the only bookstore I know of that’s still _inside_ an indoor mall. Here in Roswell/Alpharetta they just opened a huge outdoor mall called [Avalon](http://www.experienceavalon.com/). They have catchy name for the mixed use property. Something like Work-Eat-Live-Play space? You can live on the property and would never have to leave the area. Movie theater, restaurants, apartments, town houses, condos, green space, regularly schedule public events (i.e. Yoga in the morning on the green space, and League Corn Hole tournaments in the evenings). The recently had a gigantic broadcast of the Kentucky Derby. I love going there as it’s always vibrant. Way more than the mall ever was. I haven’t been inside neighboring North Point Mall in a few years; but I would definitely say the parking lot doesn’t look as full as it used to. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/55 "2017-06-02T02:01:27Z")
The rules of thumb are that any mall in a community less well off than about 50% of all American communities is in danger of closing (and hence upscale malls with upscale stores aren’t generally closing) and that enclosed malls rather than open malls are closing. Note that these are rules of thumb. They are statistically true, but there are exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807/56 "2017-06-08T14:48:52Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I was just reading about the [American Dream Meadowlands](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream_Meadowlands) mall. > > Supposedly the only enclosed mall “under construction” in the US. And “under construction” is being generous. > > Even a mall being built is dying. Yeah, I drive past that monstrosity every time I go out to New Jersey. It’s been an ugly eyesore as long as I can remember. Occasionally they do build new malls, so long as there is a train station attached to it. > **[NYC's $4 Billion Oculus Is A Shopping Mall Disguised As A Train Station](https://gothamist.com/news/nycs-4-billion-oculus-is-a-shopping-mall-disguised-as-a-train-station)** > > A mall of disarming elegance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-malls-dying-or-not/744807.md?page=2)