# So, Are We About To Go To War? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226 "2017-04-25T16:54:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/21 "2017-04-25T21:19:26Z")
Take a deep breath before reading the next two headlines. Make sure you read past them to my next paragraph. [U.S. reviews war plan for defending South Korea amid North Korean buildup](http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/24/politics/north-korea-us-war-plan-dmz/) [North Korea orders troops on war footing after exchanging fire with South](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34013475) One more deep breath. Those headlines were from Aug. 2015. I wouldn’t yet put us as close to war as we were almost two years ago. Of course it’s a big deal in the news this time. Two years ago the American populace was mostly not paying attention. That means it’s playing out in US domestic politics not just as an issue inside the US government. When passion and fear starts playing out in the electorate it certainly affects the strategic level where decisions like “are we going to war” or more limited measures that might end up there are made. Especially when the populace’s fears include the real possibility of nuclear tipped intercontinental ranged missiles within the decade. > [@Tranquilis](#): > > I don’t think his position is as secure as he’d like… maybe even significantly weak. I think he’s appeasing the generals for now, increasing their prestige to the cost of other power centers. That’s not the same thing, though, as unstable or failing. That’s pretty close to what I have seen in analysis. He didn’t purge as heavily when he first took power compared to his dad. The purging has continued longer though. That’s up to and including recently seeing his ex-pat brother as a threat that needed to be eliminated. He’s also been playing the traditional NK internal politics card of external brinksmanship pretty often (to include going as far as sinking a SK corvette in 2015 to prompt that summer’s drama.) Both hint at some internal difficulties that are pushing him towards continuing brinksmanship. I wouldn’t call anything I’ve seen failing. I also wouldn’t use unstable. Less stable and weaker than we’ve come to expect as the norm is certainly one real possibility that fits. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/22 "2017-04-25T21:52:04Z")
[American Media Are Getting People at Home Ready for War With North Korea](http://gizmodo.com/american-media-are-getting-people-at-home-ready-for-war-1794620783) - Gizmodo > [@](#): > > Some talking heads on American TV will insist that we don’t want war. But with a subtle shift in narrative, there comes a sense that “we,” as the world’s police, have no other choice. … > > And just as we saw in the lead up to the second Iraq War in 2003, American military action will begin to feel inevitable. Talks about diplomatic options will be brushed away with “we tried that” and there will be no other course but war. I think this article is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/23 "2017-04-25T22:00:02Z")
Kim knows Trump is good at bombing empty fields in Syria and talking shit, it’s all about China - the Chinese have already choked off NKs oil and have begun restricting general trade. The more China cuts aid, the more Kim’s position is in jeopardy. Not a direct comparison but Putin/Assad kind of comes to mind. Trump’s USA? Yeah, whatever ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/24 "2017-04-25T22:14:06Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > My feeling is that the little fat childish despot will back down from the big fat childish despot. > > Crazy as Kim is, he knows that China and/or the US will wipe the floor with him. Killing 10,000 south Koreans will be of little satisfaction to him when he’s sitting in a South Korean jail or worse, strung up by his own generals. Oh. Strung up by his _generals_. That’d suck too. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/25 "2017-04-25T22:50:02Z")
Q: Does the fact that rootin tootin putin is dropping Russian Armor by the train load at Kim’s northern border make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/26 "2017-04-25T23:09:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > My feeling is that the little fat childish despot will back down from the big fat childish despot. > > Crazy as Kim is, he knows that China and/or the US will wipe the floor with him. Killing 10,000 south Koreans will be of little satisfaction to him when he’s sitting in a South Korean jail or worse, strung up by his own generals. I’d prefer to see him strung up by his own genitals instead. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/27 "2017-04-25T23:14:33Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Q: Does the fact that rootin tootin putin is dropping Russian Armor by the train load at Kim’s northern border make any difference? The Russia-NK border is 17 km long. I do not think that Russia can amass _that_ many men and armor in such a narrow space. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/28 "2017-04-25T23:26:13Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > The Russia-NK border is 17 km long. I do not think that Russia can amass _that_ many men and armor in such a narrow space. You can amass a lot of things in a 17 km space. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/29 "2017-04-26T00:50:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You can amass a lot of things in a 17 km space. Especially if you do so in-depth. Say what you will about the Russians, they understand armor, its uses, and the deployment thereof. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/30 "2017-04-26T01:05:41Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, technically the war in Korea never ended. No if you want to get technical, the war in Korea never started. It was a “police action”. Congress never declared war, nor, do I believe, were they asked to do so by Truman. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/31 "2017-04-26T01:32:47Z")
> [@Tom\_Terrific](#): > > What are possible options that haven’t been explored? You know Tom, its fun to think that we could pull a rabbit out of a hat on this one. \*An orbital rail-gun that could put a 50-lb slug of steel through 50 feet of hardened concrete so fast that no missile could possibly stop it. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in orbit without full on global war. - An extremely high orbit lens between the earth and the sun that could focus heat and light into a beam of solar energy across/through vast defenses. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in even deep orbit without full on global war. - A gigantic solar “curtain”… thousands of miles long and wide, pulled open from a folded position by a what amounts to a deep space tug-boat ship between the earth and the sun… moving at the same rate of speed that the earth rotates the sun. It would keep ‘open’ its millions of movable square panels when the rest of the earth faced the sun, but close off them off (and subsequently heat up) when NK started to pass into the sun’s range daily. It could kill off all of their food crops and plant life in less than a month. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in orbit without full on global war. (also if it fails and ‘melts’ in a ‘shut position’ that deep in space while matching our orbit, blocking most light to everyone on earth for 30-40 rotations, you might just have killed the whole planet. No saving throw.) ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/32 "2017-04-26T01:40:57Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > \*An orbital rail-gun that could put a 50-lb slug of steel through 50 feet of hardened concrete so fast that no missile could possibly stop it. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in orbit without full on global war. > > - An extremely high orbit lens between the earth and the sun that could focus heat and light into a beam of solar energy across/through vast defenses. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in even deep orbit without full on global war. > > - A gigantic solar “curtain”… thousands of miles long and wide, pulled open from a folded position by a what amounts to a deep space tug-boat ship between the earth and the sun… moving at the same rate of speed that the earth rotates the sun. It would keep ‘open’ its millions of movable square panels when the rest of the earth faced the sun, but close off them off (and subsequently heat up) when NK started to pass into the sun’s range daily. It could kill off all of their food crops and plant life in less than a month. > But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in orbit without full on global war. How about some sort of orbital battlestation with a main gun that fires a plasma charge amplified by kyber crystal lenses? A star of death, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/33 "2017-04-26T01:44:54Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > \*An orbital rail-gun that could put a 50-lb slug of steel through 50 feet of hardened concrete so fast that no missile could possibly stop it. But there’s no way to get one up and assembled and operational in orbit without full on global war. Meet [Project Thor](https://prezi.com/zs2csewsud0w/project-thor-and-kinetic-bombardment/). A single launch cluster need be no larger than a KH-11 satelite, so yeah, you could get one in orbit, and maybe even keep it secret - for a while. No one’s going to be surprised if what looks like a spy satelite _acts_ like a spy satelite and swoops over the Korean Penninsula on a regular basis… ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/34 "2017-04-26T02:00:20Z")
Given this morning’s [tweet](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/856847826663460865), I’m glad I have “Trump nukes Montreal” in the How The World Ends pool. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/35 "2017-04-26T11:29:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How about some sort of orbital battlestation with a main gun that fires a plasma charge amplified by kyber crystal lenses? A star of death, if you will. Been done. Besides, the royalties alone would bankrupt the world. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/36 "2017-04-26T11:45:39Z")
I cannot recall the last time the United States has not been at war. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/37 "2017-04-26T12:48:16Z")
There is a profit motive to war, that is essential to the corporate paradigm. Wars last a long time not because they cannot be won. Rather, because the perpetual state of balanced war is good for the economy. El Salvador and Nicaragua are good examples of wars that were kept in equilibrium for years, but could have been won in days. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/38 "2017-04-26T13:21:30Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No if you want to get technical, the war in Korea never started. It was a “police action”. Congress never declared war, nor, do I believe, were they asked to do so by Truman. Please elaborate. We entered the Korean War as 1 of 21 countries as part of our UN obligations. I can’t find any mention of a separate police action, or is the UN action considered a police action. I don’t find it discussed in that manner. Still looking. Onward and in other news: I believe the Senate Briefing is today, at the White House, and the House Briefing is today back at the Capitol (not enough room at the WH). Also, that darned Armada that was not near North Korea last week (2 weeks ago?) is there now, conducting exercises with Japan. I have also seen headlines about China conducting more exercises. I don’t know if we’re ending the armistice but it does seem that North Korea is an area of active interest at the moment. I believe all parties except NK would like to see them simmer down and stop with the nukes, but he’s pushing things. Japan is rightfully concerned. Sooner or later will we have to worry about it too. There may be a sort of mass math going on right now that this is best moment to take care of a little regime change. If NK stays “communist” enough, I would guess that Russia and China will go along. If Russia can get a little more of what it wants (Crimea approval or Exxon oil), more skids will be creased. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/39 "2017-04-26T13:46:41Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe the Senate Briefing is today, at the White House Yep. Think it’s supposed to start in about 5.5 hours. I think the House briefing is supposed to start 2 hours after that. So, I’ll browse the news sites between those times to see if it’s anything startling. > [@](#): > > If NK stays “communist” enough, I would guess that Russia and China will go along. I’ve heard some of the Chinese rhetoric has been caution-y to NK lately, but I’ve no idea how far that goes. According to [this article](http://www.atimes.com/article/global-times-china-accept-surgical-strike-north-korea/), a Chinese state-run newspaper said (in an editorial, and translated) > [@](#): > > If Pyongyang’s unwavering pursuit of its nuclear program continues and Washington launches a military attack on North Korea’s nuclear facilities as a result, Beijing should oppose the move by diplomatic channels, rather than get involved through military action. But not being familiar with their papers, I have no idea how solid a statement that is. And I think I saw another article that expanded upon that saying that while such a strike would not provoke military action, actual invasion-like behavior would, but I cannot find a source on that at this time, so don’t take that to the bank. I can’t think of the terminology used, and am not finding anything with quick searches on Google. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226/40 "2017-04-26T14:38:20Z")
We spent the entire second term of GWB debating whether we were about to go to war with Iran. If I had to guess, I suspect we’re going to do the same as to the DPRK for the next four years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-are-we-about-to-go-to-war/785226.md?page=3)