# So...Atlantis found in southern Spain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926 "2011-03-16T15:33:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/21 "2011-03-18T00:01:33Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Sadly, give it a thousand years or so and we might see news reports about this very subject, IMHO… “And this is Orlando, Florida, by archaeological consensus the historical site of the real-life events that distantly inspired Ariosto’s _Orlando Furioso._ Here are the ruins of Cinderella’s Castle . . .” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2011, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/22 "2011-03-18T02:16:47Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I think that Atlantis was a literary conceit by Plato that he used to represent a perfect state. So the team might have discovered some sort of sunken city or settlement, but I don’t think it would be Atlantis. Right, there is no Atlantis to be found, ergo they did not find Atlantis. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/23 "2011-03-21T09:10:52Z")
Does anyone have a more detailed site than _Marisma de Hinojos_ on google earth. Can anything be seen from available satellite images? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/24 "2011-03-21T14:24:10Z")
What do you mean by more detailed, better coordinates within the swamp? It’s a very specific location, a swamp 50km north of Cádiz, part of Doñana National Park. The whole area is just these salt flats with nothing much to see. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/25 "2011-03-21T15:19:53Z")
Nava, have you ever been there? Do many people visit the park? Didn’t look like there was much there to me from the show, but it’s hard to tell. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Anonymous\_Coward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@Anonymous\_Coward](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anonymous_Coward)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/26 "2011-03-21T15:36:40Z")
Out of curiosity, does Mormonism have any reference to Atlantis? I’ve got a buddy on Facebook that posts about Mormon related things and when he posted a story about Atlantis I was curious if that was part of his faith somehow. I didn’t want to ask him because a) I don’t know him well enough to ask about religion and b) I didn’t want to look stupid, and c) Opal etc. fake edit - I see by Google that there is indeed some kind of relation between Mormonism and Atlantis. If anyone wants to give me the tl;dr summary I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/27 "2011-03-21T16:16:03Z")
I thought current thinking was that IF there is a physical Atlantis, it must have been [Thera](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini#Speculation_on_an_Atlantis_connection). IIRC, Thera was _shaped_ like Atlantis supposedly was, and is known to have been beyond “the Pillars of Hercules” (well, beyond a feature known as “the Pillars of Hercules,” although not the traditionally-identified Pillars of Hercules which would have put it in the Atlantic. Thera was around the right size too, if Plato made an error of a factor of ten (which has been argued, but I lack the grounding to assess the validity). lastly, Thera indeed was [destroyed and (most of it) sank beneath the waves in a single day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/28 "2011-03-21T16:24:21Z")
Plus the Minoans had a large naval base there and a big portion of their fleet…and the Greeks had fought the Minoans in the past. To me, that was always the most likely explanation as well (assuming it was even a real place). The only down sides of the story was that the Minoan civilization wasn’t destroyed by the event (it continued on Crete long after the disaster at Thera), and it wasn’t beyond the Pillars of Hercules (assuming you think those were Gibraltar and it’s equivalent in North Africa). If there is actually something in the mud flats there in Southern Spain, then it’s possible that Plato’s story (assuming it’s more than just pure fiction) might have been a composite or even a conflation of different events that he just took and then wove into the story…using some sort of quasi-factual event and then building an entire fiction around it. Or, it could just be a complete work of fiction with no basis in reality at all. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/29 "2011-03-21T16:32:21Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I thought current thinking was that IF there is a physical Atlantis, it must have been [Thera](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini#Speculation_on_an_Atlantis_connection). IIRC, Thera was _shaped_ like Atlantis supposedly was, and is known to have been beyond “the Pillars of Hercules” (well, beyond a feature known as “the Pillars of Hercules,” although not the traditionally-identified Pillars of Hercules which would have put it in the Atlantic. Thera was around the right size too, if Plato made an error of a factor of ten (which has been argued, but I lack the grounding to assess the validity). lastly, Thera indeed was [destroyed and (most of it) sank beneath the waves in a single day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption). The pre-eruption culture of [Akrotiri](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thera#Minoan_Akrotiri) (on Thera) was Minoan. Does that resemble Atlantean civilization as Plato describes it? ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/30 "2011-03-21T16:37:56Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > What do you mean by more detailed, better coordinates within the swamp? It’s a very specific location, a swamp 50km north of Cádiz, part of Doñana National Park. The whole area is just these salt flats with nothing much to see. I can find the Marisma de Hinojos on google earth for example, but it’s still a pretty large area. It’s not unusual to be able to see thing on satellite imagery that aren’t apparent on the ground, so I’d love to know the lat/long of the area they’re excavating. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/31 "2011-03-21T16:41:10Z")
According to the show they haven’t started excavating yet (and with the fiscal woes in Spain it might be a while, if ever, before they start digging). They were doing a site survey using GPR and the like (plus some diving off the coast). According to the show, however, you can see vague outlines of what they posit are buried structures and walls and such from satellite imagery. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/32 "2011-03-21T16:44:42Z")
> [@Anonymous\_Coward](#): > > Out of curiosity, does Mormonism have any reference to Atlantis? I dunno, but [Hyborianism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyborian_Age) does. So does [Theosophy.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_race#The_civilization_of_Atlantis) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/33 "2011-03-21T16:47:41Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > According to the show they haven’t started excavating yet (and with the fiscal woes in Spain it might be a while, if ever, before they start digging). They were doing a site survey using GPR and the like (plus some diving off the coast). According to the show, however, you can see vague outlines of what they posit are buried structures and walls and such from satellite imagery. > > -XT These things can take a while . . . Back in the 1970s the Chinese discovered and excavated the Terracotta Army surrounding the tomb of Qin Shih Huang Ti. But the tomb itself still has not been excavated, though its location is certain. (I sometimes wonder if these modern scientific Communist Chinese still have some superstitious fear of disturbing the First Emperor . . .) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/34 "2011-03-21T16:58:34Z")
I think there are other reasons than money for why the Chinese haven’t started excavating the main tomb there. And they have done extensive excavations around the tomb in the mean time…and still haven’t scratched the surface as far as the complex as a whole. The thing is, if there IS something down there in Spain, and if it can be excavated (they mentioned a very high water table as being one of the problems), it could be huge for their tourist trade if it’s a really interesting site. This all assumes that you could do excavations in the area…it is a state park, and I have no idea what the Spanish think about excavating in such areas. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/35 "2011-03-21T17:17:32Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I thought current thinking was that IF there is a physical Atlantis, it must have been [Thera](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorini#Speculation_on_an_Atlantis_connection). IIRC, Thera was _shaped_ like Atlantis supposedly was, and is known to have been beyond “the Pillars of Hercules” (well, beyond a feature known as “the Pillars of Hercules,” although not the traditionally-identified Pillars of Hercules which would have put it in the Atlantic. Thera was around the right size too, if Plato made an error of a factor of ten (which has been argued, but I lack the grounding to assess the validity). lastly, Thera indeed was [destroyed and (most of it) sank beneath the waves in a single day](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_eruption). Some years ago I attended a presentation on archaeology in Akrotiri, presented by the Houston Archaelogical Society. At the end, we were informed that it was \*not \*Atlantis. But cities really have sunk beneath the sea. Plato had a bunch of old stories to milk for his Speculative Fiction… ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/36 "2011-03-21T17:23:46Z")
Set Atlantis and Plato aside and we have a supposedly large coastal city potentially from the Bronze Age that doesn’t seem to have been touched in ages. I doubt they’d find any soft materials left over and I’d bet the water is salty as hell and would’ve killed any metal work but I’d bet there would be extensive pottery samples surviving. It would be neat to see the mix, maybe some Cornish pottery and north Africa stuff with Phonetician stuff added for good measure. What metals so survive salt water anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/37 "2011-03-21T17:48:26Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > …What metals so survive salt water anyway? Bronze. Here’s [one famous example](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artemision_Bronze) from a later period… ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/38 "2011-03-21T19:04:10Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > If there is actually something in the mud flats there in Southern Spain, then it’s possible that Plato’s story (assuming it’s more than just pure fiction) might have been a composite or even a conflation of different events that he just took and then wove into the story…using some sort of quasi-factual event and then building an entire fiction around it. Like Shakespeare’s The Tempest. Based on either Roanoake Island or Cuttyhunk Island, depending. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/39 "2011-03-21T19:09:44Z")
[QUOTE=Grey] What metals so survive salt water anyway? [/QUOTE] Gold would be the most obvious. Bronze would be another good candidate, since I’ve seen examples of it from bronze age ship wrecks. It’s really hard to say what might be there. Even if every scrap of gold or organic material is gone, though, there might be stone work, frescoes, maybe even tablets with writing on them. If the city was completely abandoned and left intact after the disaster it could be one of the great archeological finds in history if it’s even remotely close to the time period of the supposed Atlantis. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926/40 "2011-03-21T20:02:23Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Like Shakespeare’s The Tempest. Based on either Roanoake Island or Cuttyhunk Island, depending. I thought that was based on the wreck of the Sea Venture on Bermuda. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-atlantis-found-in-southern-spain/574926.md?page=3)