# So Bill Bennett has a vice - Do the media have to pillory him for it? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 3, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753 "2003-05-03T00:09:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/21 "2003-05-03T14:41:35Z")
Bennett’s high-horse act has been about behavior as much as results. When discussing the vices he _doesn’t_ indulge, I think Bennett would argue that it’s not the results alone that are debilitating, it’s also the actual practice: drug taking is bad even if you can afford it and aren’t addicted. Porn is bad even if it’s legal, even if everyone involved is a consenting adult, even if porn users all have happy marriages. Assuming that’s been his attitude all along, I think it’s absolutely appropriate that his gambling record is out in the open. Plus he’s a tiny-minded little slug who wouldn’t have a job if he didn’t have friends in high places. Fuck him with $500 in $10 chips. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/22 "2003-05-03T14:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*As long as he’s still paying his mortgage and tending to his family, where is the hypocrisy? I don’t think Bennett has ever said gambling is evil _per se_ (though I would be happy to be corrected if I’m wrong on that). \*\* Exactlty right, **Dewey** According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “Games of chance [card games, etc.] or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for one’s needs and those of others.” Mr. Bennett, a Catholic, apparently feels the same way: > [@](#): > > I adhere to the law. I don’t play the “milk money”. I don’t put my family at risk, and I don’t owe anyone anything. He is following his faith’s teaching on the matter. How is that being a hypocrite? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/23 "2003-05-03T15:23:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by beagledave \* > \*\*It doesn’t sound like a one time loss…whether it’s $200 or $200,000. \*\* Oh spare me. If the facts had been that Bennett had, over a period of years, made trips to casinos where he lost an average of $200 per trip, totaling $4,000 over eight years, this would be a nonstory. This isn’t about Bennett gambling, or even about Bennett gambling on a regular basis. Plenty of people non-gambling-addicted people enjoy driving to AC from New York on a Saturday every now and again. For most of those folks, the money they drop is just part of the cost of the entertainment they derive – they plan on losing, and it’s a nice bonus if they happen to come out ahead. Assuming Bennett has the cash to absorb those losses, how is this any different? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/24 "2003-05-03T15:30:04Z")
Remarkable thing is how long it has been uncomented on by the media. He was a contender for the presidency once and nobody (I remember anyway) mentioned it. Did (say) the Washington Post know about this and keep quiet? Did they simply not know? How odd. This leads to the question of why it was published now. Odder still. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Gui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/25 "2003-05-03T15:45:21Z")
I do not see how he could have become such a widely recognized morality and virtues czar if there had been any significant number of unflattering items reported over the years. So, not only is he a regular member of an often cliquish media, his treatment over the years, I would assume, has been overwhelmingly positive and pretty much devoid of anything negative. Should it not therefore take a bit more than one unflattering story appearing in three media outlets before adding Bennett to the list of unfortunate and innocent victims pilloried by the evil, ruthless and biased liberal media? Sheesh. I thought liberals were supposed to be the overly sensitive wimpy ones. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/26 "2003-05-03T16:29:28Z")
It sure didn’t take long for the right wing media to excuse this. For example, Jonathan Last of the [Weekly Standard](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/643kabms.asp) has already said that this particular private behavior is far more acceptable than the private behavior that involves adultery because: > [@](#): > > One is tempted to argue that Bennett’s gambling is a legal, common, private activity. But that shouldn’t necessarily protect him. If Bennett was cheating on his wife (which is also legal, common, and private) it would be a serious charge, but that’s because it involves the breaking of trust and willingness to hurt others. On the scale of legal, common, private activities, gambling is much closer to smoking than adultery. Would the world shudder if it turned out that Bennett was a two-pack-a-day man? Then, of course he then goes on to bash Clinton and his supporters, specifically the [Washington Monthly](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0306.green.html) and Charles Peters. Despite the fact that Peters has not publicly commented on this, and Washington Monthly’s claim of Bennett’s hypocrisy is > [@](#): > > Despite his personal appetites, Bennett and his organization, Empower America, oppose the extension of casino gambling in the states. In a recent editorial, his Empower America co-chair Jack Kemp inveighed against lawmakers who “pollute our society with a slot machine on every corner.” The group recently published an Index of Leading Cultural Indicators, with an introduction written by Bennett, that reports 5.5 million American adults as “problem” or “pathological” gamblers. Bennett says he is neither because his habit does not disrupt his family life which seems far from the “… clubbing Bennett with the hypocrisy stick” as is the accusation of Weekly Standard. In Bennett’s book [_Death of Outrage_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684813726/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/104-5051785-7211147?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link) (pgs 8 and 9 to which I can’t directly link) when in discussing the argument that Clinton’s _private_ indiscretions are irrelevant to his public governing abilities, Bennett claims that > [@](#): > > I believe these arguments are also a threat to our understanding of American self-government. It demands active precipitation in, and finally, reasoned judgments on, important civic matters. “Judgment” is a word that is out of favor these days, but it remains a cornerstone of democratic self-government. It is what enables us to hold ourselves, and our leaders, to high standards. It is how we distinguish between right and wrong, noble and base, honor and dishonor. we cannot ignore that responsibility, or foist it on others. It is the price-sometimes the exacting price-of citizenship in a democracy. The most popular arguments made by the president’s supporters invite us to abandon that participation, those standards, and the practice of making those distinctions Now personally I don’t give two hoots about Bennett’s gambling habits. As long as he can afford it, and his family doesn’t care, why should I? (Then again, I really didn’t care about Clinton getting his knob polished either) However, in light of Bennett’s words and actions, I believe that he should expect some fall-out from this, and that the right-wing shouldn’t be too surprised. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/27 "2003-05-03T17:14:23Z")
Ooooh, dat debbil libruhl media! Its the Jews! Or the hippies! Or the trial lawyers! Or the lesbians! No, its the Jewish hippie lesbian trial lawyers! At least part of this rubs up against the conservative _shibboleth_ of the Divine Sanctity of Private Property, that is, once you wrap your grubby mitts around the booty, its yours. Myself, if I had 8 megabucks and didn’t turn over at least half of it to Doctors Without Borders, or **Paul’s** Shriner Hospitals or some such, I would regard myself as an utter scumbag. Pissing it away like that shows the moral clarity of a garden slug. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/28 "2003-05-03T17:36:18Z")
When I first read the OP, before reading the linked article, I thought we were talking about the Bill Bennett who was one of the founders/CEO of Circus Circus Enterprises, and was wondering what the bill deal about him gambling was. Shows where my mind is. Anyway, THIS Bill Bennett is an ass (apparently, so was the other Bennett, but in a different way). I agree with **light strand** ’s final paragraph. Gambling in and of itself doesn’t make him any more of an ass than he already is, but with the high-and-mighty morals stance he takes on everything else, he shouldn’t really be surprised about the fallout. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/29 "2003-05-03T18:16:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by elucidator \* > **Myself, if I had 8 megabucks and didn’t turn over at least half of it to Doctors Without Borders, or Paul’s Shriner Hospitals or some such, I would regard myself as an utter scumbag.** How do you think the busboys and hotel maids get paid in Vegas? Magical money pixies? And how do you know Bennett _doesn’t_ give substantial sums to charity? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/30 "2003-05-03T18:23:06Z")
Out of curiosity, **Dewey** : when Clinton was staining the intern’s dresses, did you put that in perspective the way you’re doing with Bennett’s gambling? “Look, it’s not so bad in and of itself, and he didn’t put his family in the poorhouse, so what’s the big deal?” I agree with you that his gambling isn’t such a big deal, though I can also see how much it smacks of hypocrisy to many. I find the lining up along a left-right axis to be more irritating, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/31 "2003-05-03T21:21:08Z")
I just love how the right-wingers/Republican apologists of the board and in the press are trying to rationalize this away while once again excoriating Clinton. How original.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/32 "2003-05-03T22:05:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > **Out of curiosity, Dewey: when Clinton was staining the intern’s dresses, did you put that in perspective the way you’re doing with Bennett’s gambling? "Look, it’s not so bad in and of itself, and he didn’t put his family in the poorhouse, so what’s the big deal?"** Look, if you want to argue that gambling with large sums of money is _immoral_, and that therefore Bennett is immoral, fine. But that doesn’t make Bennett _hypocritical_. It would only be hypocritical if Bennett had earlier stated that gambling was per se immoral. He hasn’t. Thus the charge of hypocrisy is misplaced. FTR, I’ve never cared much about whose orifices Clinton slipped his willie into. I _do_ care about lying under oath. That’s a horse of a different color. Should Bennett ever lie under oath about his gambling, then I’ll consider him in the same ballpark as Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/33 "2003-05-03T22:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s bizarre that the only hypocrites the media chases down are the right-wing moralizers. Perhaps it’s because the media doesn’t have to do much chasing when the left-wingers are constantly being accused and vilified by the right wing moralizers themselves. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/34 "2003-05-03T22:19:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > **Look, if you want to argue that gambling with large sums of money is _immoral_, and that therefore Bennett is immoral, fine. But that doesn’t make Bennett _hypocritical_. It would only be hypocritical if Bennett had earlier stated that gambling was per se immoral. He hasn’t. Thus the charge of hypocrisy is misplaced.** If you want an insight into why many here think he’s a hypocrite, then it’s because he’s held himself up as a moral exemplar, including recognizing the damaging effects of gambling (witness his opposition to expanded gambling), while indulging in something that is generally considered a vice. It seems like he’s granting himself a moral exception. You can disagree with this, but surely you can see how many can think this. As for Clinton, I wasn’t comparing the two directly, nor equating Bennett’s gambling with Clinton’s lying under oath. I was equating Bennett’s gambling with Clinton’s infidelities, something that I’ve heard many on the right decry in and of itself. Were you as generous with Clinton on the topic of getting blowjobs in the oval office as you are with Bennett having a gambling habit while writing books about the moral decline of America? I mean, surely you can see how there’s something fishy about Bennett excusing his own moderate participation in a vice while hectoring Americans about their own vices, moderate or not. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/35 "2003-05-03T22:29:22Z")
Dewey if you check my post above you will see that the _Weekly Standard_ did _not_ mention that lying under oath was less forgivable than gambling. It _explicitly_ says that adultery is more unforgivable. They brought it up, not any of the other sources I’ve seen. Perhaps it’s just a preemptive strike. As I’ve said before, I don’t care, but I fail to understand the surprise. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/36 "2003-05-03T22:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > **If you want an insight into why many here think he’s a hypocrite, then it’s because he’s held himself up as a moral exemplar, including recognizing the damaging effects of gambling (witness his opposition to expanded gambling), while indulging in something that is generally considered a vice.** Is it hypocritical for someone who drinks socially to take stances against alcoholism and to suggest that building a liquor store on every block might not be the best idea in the world? > [@](#): > > **Were you as generous with Clinton on the topic of getting blowjobs in the oval office as you are with Bennett having a gambling habit while writing books about the moral decline of America?** Did you not read the second paragraph of my post (you know, the post where you quoted the first paragraph)? Allow me to refresh your memory: “FTR, I’ve never cared much about whose orifices Clinton slipped his willie into.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/13edae/32.png) [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Cheatem_Undhow)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/37 "2003-05-03T22:51:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by light strand \* > \*\*Dewey if you check my post above you will see that the _Weekly Standard_ did _not_ mention that lying under oath was less forgivable than gambling. It _explicitly_ says that adultery is more unforgivable. \*\* And if you’ll check _my_ post, you’ll see that the poster I was responding to ( **hansel** ) did not ask me “what did the _Weekly Standard_ think of Clinton’s sexual piccadiloes?” No, no – I was asked “what did _I_ think of Clinton’s sexual piccadiloes.” I am not the _Weekly Standard_’s keeper. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/38 "2003-05-03T23:15:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > **Is it hypocritical for someone who drinks socially to take stances against alcoholism and to suggest that building a liquor store on every block might not be the best idea in the world?** Does it appear hypocritical for someone who is a moralist on everything else to be silent on his own sins? Yes, it does. It’s not on the scale of Bennett having a three-needle-a-day smack habit while he was drug czar, but surely you see the source of irritation among some. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dewey Cheatem Undhow \* > \*\*Did you not read the second paragraph of my post (you know, the post where you quoted the first paragraph)? Allow me to refresh your memory: “FTR, I’ve never cared much about whose orifices Clinton slipped his willie into.” \*\* I concede the point. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/39 "2003-05-03T23:36:56Z")
Well Dewey, I suppose I’ll mind my own beeswax then. I was unaware of the “don’t read or post to comments directed at other posters” rule. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753/40 "2003-05-04T00:42:10Z")
Bill Bennett makes _Jimmy Carter_ cry! Bennett, the moralist, also lies to himself, his family, the public, and to God when he says… > [@](#): > > “Over 10 years, I’d say I’ve come out pretty close to even,” Get the boy to rehab. Tell him that realizing he has a problem, instead of denying it, is the first step. “Pretty close to even” playing the slots? R-i-g-h-t. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bill-bennett-has-a-vice-do-the-media-have-to-pillory-him-for-it/172753.md?page=3)