# So Bob Ross. He's a good painter, but he sucks, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** arts-crafts\ **Created:** [October 30, 2019, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690 "2019-10-30T05:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/21 "2019-10-30T14:47:34Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I would argue the time formatting of the program didn’t allow for more complicated compositions. A composition that you can crank out in half an hour can’t be too overly detailed. > > I would wonder what his personal projects look like, the paintings he worked on for days or even hours that weren’t part of the show > [@BigT](#): > > However, I would argue that’s just due to the format of the show. It’s not just that he’s doing it in 30 minutes, as others said. It’s also that the whole point is teaching art. Agreed. It isn’t fair to call him a “shitty artist” because that implies he was bad at what he was trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/22 "2019-10-30T14:54:31Z")
Just as long as it matches the sofa, okay, Bob? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/23 "2019-10-30T14:58:27Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What is ART is a question that can and will be debated until the heat death of the universe, and there still won’t be a definitive answer. One definition of ART that I find helpful—though it’s certainly not the only possible definition, or even the only one I’d ever use—is that a Work Of Art gives the world something that it wouldn’t have if that particular work didn’t exist. A painting (or novel or song or movie or whatever) may be well-crafted and entertaining, but if it doesn’t offer people something that they couldn’t get from dozens of other works instead, it’s not Art _in this particular sense_. I’m not familiar enough with Ross’s work to know whether any of it qualifies as Art under this definition. Maybe not. But that wouldn’t mean that he “sucks,” just that that wasn’t what he was trying to do. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/24 "2019-10-30T16:04:55Z")
I always concidered his stuff “craft” more than art. Art is inspired–anyone can learn to do crafts. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/25 "2019-10-30T16:18:52Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Even frigging Kinkade made art (or his ghost painters did), even if it looked like every cottage was burning on the inside. Some years ago at the Tucson Gem and Mineral show my brother and I came upon a really bad copy of a Kincade painting.\* After looking at it a moment, I commented, “Kinkade may be a hack but at least he’s a talented hack.” \*There is more than just gems and minerals there. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/26 "2019-10-30T16:21:57Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > \*There is more than just gems and minerals there. Like bad Kincaid knock-offs? You’re not really selling it, there 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/27 "2019-10-30T16:35:11Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I always concidered his stuff “craft” more than art. Art is inspired–anyone can learn to do crafts. To me it’s the other way around - anything can be defined as “art” if you ask the right critic, but actual technical skills take work. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/28 "2019-10-30T16:39:24Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > One definition of ART that I find helpful—though it’s certainly not the only possible definition, or even the only one I’d ever use—is that a Work Of Art gives the world something that it wouldn’t have if that particular work didn’t exist. A painting (or novel or song or movie or whatever) may be well-crafted and entertaining, but if it doesn’t offer people something that they couldn’t get from dozens of other works instead, it’s not Art _in this particular sense_. I don’t see how this is at all helpful; it sounds clever, but ‘something it wouldn’t have’ is ill-defined and sweeping enough you can use the definition to declare that everything is art or to disqualify anything you don’t like from being art. It’s only really good for sneering at something someone else likes but you don’t, not for conveying real information. I mean, you’re never going to get literally exactly the same thing from this particular work, even if it’s similar to other works, so everything is art if you use the definition that way. OTOH, you can just say that any particular work is ‘something they could get from dozens of other works instead’ even for particularly interesting or thought provoking art - I mean, I can see lots of pics of chicks smiling, so the Mona Lisa isn’t art, I can see lots of naked guys standing around so marble statues aren’t art, there are dozens of paintings of angels, saints, and demons so no religious works count as art. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/29 "2019-10-30T17:04:38Z")
Art is an expression of the artist’s intentions. They may not be noble intentions. The intentions may not always be profound. The work may not be polished or pretty. But if it convey’s the artist’s meaning, then it’s art. Bob Ross’ intention, on his show, was giving thirty-minute painting lessons, not creating art. But in as much as his message was often, “Man I just love painting happy little trees!”, he managed to convey that just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/30 "2019-10-30T17:24:31Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I mean, I can see lots of pics of chicks smiling, so the Mona Lisa isn’t art But that’s just it: there’s something about the Mona Lisa that sets it apart from all those other pics of chicks smiling. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t still care about it after all these years. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/31 "2019-10-30T17:59:08Z")
Bob Ross was a very good hack painter who made an enjoyable art instruction show. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/32 "2019-10-30T18:13:41Z")
In addition to the comments above about being an “art teacher,” one of the recurring themes of the show was that _anyone can paint_. It was targeted towards people who wanted a hobby in general, or who wanted to paint specifically, but were intimidated by the learning curve. Bob Ross had refined a set of techniques and a color pallet that allowed people to go to the art store, shopping list in hand, and follow along at home without feeling overwhelmed and intimidated. Think of him less as an artist and more as the greatest instructor of a Wednesday night “wine and paint” happy hour ever. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/33 "2019-10-30T18:26:13Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But that’s just it: there’s something about the Mona Lisa that sets it apart from all those other pics of chicks smiling. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t still care about it after all these years. The fact that it was [stolen](https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/world/europe/mona-lisa-the-theft/index.html) in sensational circumstances helped a lot. Newspapers printed images of it and the world started taking notice of it. Before, it was just another painting in the Louvre, as [this example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Gallery_of_the_Louvre_1831-33_Samuel_Morse.jpg) shows (by Samuel F. B. Morse, known nowadays for his code). Look to the right of the doorway at the bottom. Hardly conspicuous, and none of the painters portrayed is paying any attention to it. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/34 "2019-10-30T19:34:41Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But that’s just it: there’s something about the Mona Lisa that sets it apart from all those other pics of chicks smiling. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t still care about it after all these years. You’re proving my point; you can say the same thing about ANY work. I mean, there’s something about Bob Ross’s painting that set them apart from all of the other landscapes in the word. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t still care about them all these years after he died. Simply discussing whether an item is art or not is enough to qualify it as art under that definition. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/35 "2019-10-30T19:35:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Bill Nye](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye) is an engineer, not a scientist. > > [He’s also a superhero.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4e6h4zLC5U8) > 😃 Webster’s definition of “scientist” simply states that it is someone who possesses expert knowledge in the natural or physical sciences. Being a scientist doesn’t mean you have a degree. Being a mechanical engineer means you’ve studied Chemistry, Physics, and Calculus, and that you use the scientific method to test hypothesis with regards to mechanical devices, oftentimes needing to have deep knowledge of the physical properties of all of the substances used in the products you are testing (ie how much force can we place upon thi metal rod before it bends? breaks?) Anyone telling you a mechanical engineer is not a scientist is woefully misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/36 "2019-10-30T19:38:32Z")
Are you talking about this guy? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5DaVnriHhPc/maxresdefault.jpg "Deeply Artificial Trees (excerpt)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DaVnriHhPc) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/37 "2019-10-30T19:55:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I always concidered his stuff “craft” more than art. Art is inspired–anyone can learn to do crafts. The art-craft distinction isn’t real. It’s a not particularly useful, highly subjective, elitist artifact of (mostly) modern Western culture, and more specifically the academy system and the related social constructs that Dano called “the artworld” . ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/38 "2019-10-30T21:32:37Z")
Bob Ross is an excellent artist. But his artworks aren’t paintings. His artworks are TV episodes of painting. Even if the paintings he produced were absolute garbage (they’re not), the show would still do a very good job of conveying the emotions he wished it to convey. He’s calm and peaceful, and when you watch his shows, you become more calm and peaceful. That’s art at its best. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/39 "2019-10-30T22:36:28Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The fact that it was [stolen](https://www.cnn.com/2013/11/18/world/europe/mona-lisa-the-theft/index.html) in sensational circumstances helped a lot. Newspapers printed images of it and the world started taking notice of it. > > Before, it was just another painting in the Louvre, as [this example](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Gallery_of_the_Louvre_1831-33_Samuel_Morse.jpg) shows (by Samuel F. B. Morse, known nowadays for his code). Look to the right of the doorway at the bottom. Hardly conspicuous, and none of the painters portrayed is paying any attention to it. Wow, while looking at the Gallery of the Louvre link, my eye just naturally goes back to the very nice, simple painting of that lady smiling at the bottom. None of the other paintings “do” anything for me; they seem so generic, but that portrait “has it going on” if you know what I mean. Perhaps I’m just conditioned to search for it, but it really jumps out. Two things as far as Bob Ross goes. 1) Part of his legacy is his short life, dying at age 52 of lymphoma. If he was (today) 77 and still painting, we’d probably consider him merely an old eccentric. 1. Go to ebay and search “Bob Ross signed original” (not in the Bob Ross style). Any guesses on how much they range for? I was surprised they were $13,000 to $20,000Compare them to the ones done in the “Bob Ross style” or technique; most of those look pretty bad. I’d say he had a style to be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690/40 "2019-10-30T23:35:32Z")
> [@Rough\_Draft](#): > > I think this sums it up nicely, and I see it as a compliment to both men. It was meant as such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bob-ross-hes-a-good-painter-but-he-sucks-right/842690.md?page=3)