# So, Britain Secedes from the Union. Why will there be No War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223 "2016-06-24T12:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/1 "2016-06-24T12:58:53Z")
I mean, it’s not even a wild possibility. And while riding the bus today, I was thinking, given the result of the Confederate States leaving the United States, or even the more recent breakup of the Balkans, to quote Bob Dole, “Where’s the outrage?” Is it that old saw that wars don’t happen between democracies? Why not? What gives democracies immunity to war between themselves? Is it that the European Union doesn’t feel like a solid nation like the United States, and so there’s no sense of treason? It’s just an association like NATO? Or is Europe just too civilized for war these days? (Pardon me for wetting my pants laughing.) No really, why no war drums or saber rattling? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/2 "2016-06-24T13:00:57Z")
It’s a Treaty, not a Country or a State (in the “nation-state” meaning, not the “this is what we call our subdivisions” level). They have the right to leave. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/3 "2016-06-24T13:01:22Z")
Because there has always been the option for any EU nation to unilaterally withdraw. Thats part of the original agreement. [http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html](http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/4 "2016-06-24T13:08:24Z")
Probably because when the EU was created, they also hashed out a way to leave it: [Article 50.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_from_the_European_Union) When the Confederate States it was somewhat sudden and the Union didn’t necessarily agree that them leaving was possible. There was no negotiation. Article 50 gives something like 2 years to negotiate a withdraw agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/5 "2016-06-24T13:16:38Z")
The plans for an invasion of Britain haven’t been updated in a while. > **[Operation Sea Lion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea_Lion)** > > Luxembourg > The Netherlands > Belgium > **[Napoleon's planned invasion of the United Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon%27s_planned_invasion_of_the_United_Kingdom)** > > Napoleon's planned invasion of the United Kingdom at the start of the War of the Third Coalition, although never carried out, was a major influence on British naval strategy and the fortification of the coast of southeast England. French attempts to invade Ireland in order to destabilise the United Kingdom or as a stepping-stone to Great Britain had already occurred in 1796. The first French Army of England had gathered on the Channel coast in 1798, but an invasion of England was sidelined by Nap... ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/6 "2016-06-24T13:23:38Z")
But now we have a tunnel!! MUHAHAHaha…ha ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/7 "2016-06-24T13:24:16Z")
You might get your war, as a renewal of “the troubles” in Northern Ireland. If theres a big push for NI to re-unify with Ireland so they can stay in the EU then the Orange Order and loyalist paramilitaries are likely to violently resist. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/8 "2016-06-24T13:27:09Z")
It’s just the start. The EU threw out hundreds of years of European tradition, now they’ll return to their natural state of hatred of all other European countries and we’ll have a war soon enough. If the Germans and Brits are smart they’ll team up and meet in the middle of France to save a lot of time. ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/9 "2016-06-24T13:31:09Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/10 "2016-06-24T13:34:02Z")
Quite a bit of Western France is, in fact, English territory … The Netherlands are entitled to Belgium … there’s the eastern provinces, they have a long history of belonging to Germany … The sad part is that all these European powers used up all their bullets in Libya and it’s going to take them a few decades to build up their supply again. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/11 "2016-06-24T13:41:12Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Quite a bit of Western France is, in fact, English territory … If we’re gonna get like that, Navarrese independence now! Spain can keep our western mark but we want Fuenterrabía/Ondarribia back. With the formerly-French side we’ll have us a nice little bit of coast. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/12 "2016-06-24T13:42:34Z")
Don’t forget Gibraltar. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/13 "2016-06-24T13:49:05Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Don’t forget Gibraltar. I thought we were supposed to not forget Poland! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/14 "2016-06-24T13:50:38Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > But now we have a tunnel!! MUHAHAHaha…ha Yes, but that’s where they’ll expect us ! They’ll never even guess at our surprise reverse D-Day borne on inflatable sheep ! ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/15 "2016-06-24T14:01:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Don’t forget Gibraltar. → [Brexit: Spain calls for joint control of Gibraltar](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36618796) (BBC) > [@](#): > > “The Spanish flag on the Rock is much closer than before,” Spain’s acting Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Garcia-Margallo said on Friday. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/16 "2016-06-24T14:10:10Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > I mean, it’s not even a wild possibility. And while riding the bus today, I was thinking, given the result of the Confederate States leaving the United States, or even the more recent breakup of the Balkans, to quote Bob Dole, “Where’s the outrage?” (post shortened) Because there is nothing to go to war over. The British economy will take a hit. The economies of England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland will take a hit. So will the economies of the EU. There will be tough times ahead. I expect the British to come together and create an even greater Great Britian. These are reasonable people, for the most part. They’ve overcome greater obsticles than this. No one is under physical attack. There are no bullets flying and people dying and there’s no reason for anyone to start a actual war. OTOH, Putin may chose to expand Russian territory or influence??? Meanwhile, back in 1861 U.S.A, southern states had chosen to leave the Union. One by one they had rejected the current federal government. They then chose to join together and create their own federal Confederate government. So far so good. Some economic difficulties/hardships for both sides but no one died and there was no reason for war. And then someone decided it would be a good idea to attack the Union troops at Ft. Sumter. The citizens of the northern states didn’t care if the southern states left the U.S.A… _Buh bye. Have a nice day. So long. Get well soon._ But the citizens of the northern states were not going to stand by and let any (now) foreign power attack them. If YOU want a war, then YOU shall have a war. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/17 "2016-06-24T14:16:04Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And then someone decided it would be a good idea to attack the Union troops at Ft. Sumter. > > The citizens of the northern states didn’t care if the southern states left the U.S.A… _Buh bye. Have a nice day. So long. Get well soon._ This is absolutely false. The North was furious over secession and was not going to allow it; Fort Sumter was a match, but the gasoline was already being poured. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/18 "2016-06-24T14:25:47Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > → [Brexit: Spain calls for joint control of Gibraltar](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36618796) (BBC) I see this as the site of the next really really really tiny war. I also wonder if the Argentinians are going to fir the Falklands again – perhaps while the Brits are squabbling over Gibraltar? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/19 "2016-06-24T14:28:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought we were supposed to not forget Poland! I think Germany should pressure for the return of Prussia. What could possibly go wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2016, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/20 "2016-06-24T14:30:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I thought we were supposed to not forget Poland! I, for one, remember the Maine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223.md?page=2)