# So, Britain Secedes from the Union. Why will there be No War? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223 "2016-06-24T12:58:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/81 "2016-06-25T15:19:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I never thought of that! Yeah, I didn’t think you had, otherwise your code would have been BULLSHIT, instead of NATO. 😛 I wasn’t really responding to you so much as agreeing with your NATO thingy with respect to WillFarnaby’s post. It’s just too ridiculous to even speculate on a war between the EU and the UK over this, especially when there is a clause right in the treaty for member states to withdraw, when the EU isn’t really a federal entity and is really just an overblown trade treaty, and, as you cleverly pointed out, NATO. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/82 "2016-06-25T15:21:57Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, I didn’t think you had, otherwise your code would have been BULLSHIT, instead of NATO. 😛 I wasn’t really responding to you so much as agreeing with your NATO thingy with respect to WillFarnaby’s post. It’s just too ridiculous to even speculate on a war between the EU and the UK over this, especially when there is a clause right in the treaty for member states to withdraw, when the EU isn’t really a federal entity and is really just an overblown trade treaty, and, as you cleverly pointed out, NATO. No disrespected intended, amigo. Just playing along with the game… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/83 "2016-06-25T15:32:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No disrespected intended, amigo. Just playing along with the game… 🙂 I figured. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/84 "2016-06-25T15:39:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is GB a leviathan state? I’d argue it’s a rather humble nation at this point. This particular issue is as sensical as asking whether Austin, Texas, is a globbo-globbo city or a googly-moogly city. “Leviathan state” is a completely unscientific term that is clearly just used as a pejorative to mean “political entity that I think is too big.” Look, the U.K. has universal health care, nuclear weapons, high VAT taxes, rules about who can drive in London without substantial cost, near total gun control, a legendary bureaucracy, a royal family, a government that’s close with the financial industry, and so on and so on. The EU has functionaries who spend years determining whether Swiss cheese must come from Switzerland. How anyone can claim the EU is a monsterous government, and the U.K. is merely cute, clearly has determined the answer and is making the facts fit the theory. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/85 "2016-06-25T15:58:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Complete and utter **N** onsense. **A** n army would no **T** change the current **O** rder. Were the US states legally obligated to not attack each other before the Civil War? Maybe I woUld reSpect your cute Answers if you would flesh them out a bit. It’s a possibility that the US govt would back the secessionist GB, but not guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/86 "2016-06-25T16:01:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > This particular issue is as sensical as asking whether Austin, Texas, is a globbo-globbo city or a googly-moogly city. “Leviathan state” is a completely unscientific term that is clearly just used as a pejorative to mean “political entity that I think is too big.” > > Look, the U.K. has universal health care, nuclear weapons, high VAT taxes, rules about who can drive in London without substantial cost, near total gun control, a legendary bureaucracy, a royal family, a government that’s close with the financial industry, and so on and so on. The EU has functionaries who spend years determining whether Swiss cheese must come from Switzerland. How anyone can claim the EU is a monsterous government, and the U.K. is merely cute, clearly has determined the answer and is making the facts fit the theory. Hey if you don’t want to play with the hypothetical I posited in which the EU was a leviathan state with an army, that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/87 "2016-06-25T20:09:33Z")
Anyway, to answer the OP: 1. The UK leaving the EU isn’t a sufficient casus belli. 2. Britain has a very advanced military, and could make such a war extremely costly in terms of lives and damage. 3. What would the war accomplish? Lose trillions of euros and thousands of lives, all to coerce Britain into coming back to the EU when it doesn’t want to be in the EU? 4. There would be about zero popular support within the EU for such a war to begin with. Who would argue in favor of it in the EU? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/88 "2016-06-25T21:17:01Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > It’s non-binding in the sense that it carries no legal force in the UK. It would be politically very stupid to ignore the result, though. > > The UK doesn’t have to “petition” to leave the EU, in the sense of “make a polite request that could be refused”, but there is a process set down in the EU treaties and the UK will be expected to follow it. The phrase you might hear in the news is “invoking article 50”. At the moment, Cameron has said he will not do this himself, but rather leave it to his successor when he steps down in October. Thanks. It’s good to know that the information’s good. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/89 "2016-06-26T00:22:32Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > G.B., the Brits, have a long history of overcoming adversity. I expect them to do the same this time. The Brits will bounce back just like they have so many times in the past. Well, that whole “British Empire global colonial superpower dominating the world” bit seems to be gone for good, though. The expression “bounce back” is very vague: the question is, what will GB/UK bounce back **to**? They “bounced back” from the devastation of the World Wars, but in a permanently shrunken form deprived of most of their colonies and much of their wealth and influence. If somebody had said in 1914 “Britain will bounce back from this Continental conflict and overcome the adversity”, and you showed them in a crystal ball the UK of 1952, I don’t think they’d feel that _that_ was what they had meant by “bounce back”. Likewise, I don’t think anyone doubts that some form of “Britain” will “bounce back” in the sense of continuing to survive as a nation (or nations), but that’s setting the bar pretty low as far as aspirations and expectations go. What will its form and status be when the “bounceback” has occurred? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/90 "2016-06-26T00:37:48Z")
Also, the remainder of the EU seems to be trying to figure out how to hurry the UK along to get out now that they’ve had this vote, so I don’t know why anyone would think a war to keep them in would be likely. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/91 "2016-06-26T01:01:07Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > So, Britain Secedes from the Union. Why will there be No War? Why would there be? What is the overriding social problem to drive a war? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2016, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/92 "2016-06-26T13:48:32Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Why would there be? What is the overriding social problem to drive a war? The way the other countries are reacting at this point, there might be a war if Britain doesn’t leave fast enough! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/93 "2016-06-27T00:30:01Z")
John Mace’s History: It’s a good thing the American colonies were allied with GB or else when they seceded, GB might have attacked them. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/94 "2016-06-27T23:11:24Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > The under 50’s voted to remain. Why should they work to create something they didn’t want? Along with Scotland leaving, you can expect a brain drain where a lot of young talented people will be voting with their feet and heading off to somewhere else. I’ll believe it when I see it actually happening. just sayin’ ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/95 "2016-06-27T23:38:26Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, that whole “British Empire global colonial superpower dominating the world” bit seems to be gone for good, though. > > The expression “bounce back” is very vague: the question is, what will GB/UK bounce back **to**? They “bounced back” from the devastation of the World Wars, but in a permanently shrunken form deprived of most of their colonies and much of their wealth and influence. > > If somebody had said in 1914 “Britain will bounce back from this Continental conflict and overcome the adversity”, and you showed them in a crystal ball the UK of 1952, I don’t think they’d feel that _that_ was what they had meant by “bounce back”. > > Likewise, I don’t think anyone doubts that some form of “Britain” will “bounce back” in the sense of continuing to survive as a nation (or nations), but that’s setting the bar pretty low as far as aspirations and expectations go. What will its form and status be when the “bounceback” has occurred? The whole “British Empire global colonial superpower dominating the world” thing has been gone for a very long time. The sun has definitely set on the British Empire. And Great Britain survived/bounced back. \*Phrasal Verb: bounce back To recover quickly, as from a setback: The patient bounced back to good health.[/] > **[bounce back](https://www.thefreedictionary.com/bounce+back)** > > Definition, Synonyms, Translations of bounce back by The Free Dictionary There is nothing inherently wrong with British industry, or housing, or manufacturing. Of course, adjustments will have to be made but I see no reason why G.B. should not bounce back again. What happened in the UK of 1952? 1952 - Churchill announced that the United Kingdom has an atomic bomb. - Queen Elizabeth II proclaimed Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. - British troops continued to fight a UN police action in Korea. - The Great Smog was responsible for the death of 4,000 in London. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/96 "2016-06-27T23:42:44Z")
“Congratulations, Ma’am! You pulled through the surgery admirably, and should bounce right back in no time! I mean, you weren’t even really using those legs we had to amputate.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/97 "2016-06-28T01:14:06Z")
> [@andros](#): > > “Congratulations, Ma’am! You pulled through the surgery admirably, and should bounce right back in no time! I mean, you weren’t even really using those legs we had to amputate.” Is the phrasal verb _bounce back_ considered verboten in the Great Debates forum? Did I miss a memo, or were some members actually frightened by Tigger at an early age? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/98 "2016-06-28T02:29:17Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Maybe I woUld reSpect your cute Answers if you would flesh them out a bit. Why on earth would I want your respect? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/99 "2016-06-28T03:03:12Z")
If I had been taught lessons every time I engaged with a person, and subsequently ran away, I would probably secretly want that person’s respect. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2016, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223/100 "2016-07-04T22:14:13Z")
Totally different kind of union. I think you already knew that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-britain-secedes-from-the-union-why-will-there-be-no-war/758223.md?page=6)