# So Bruce Jener is LGBT - Who gives a F\*CK **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542 "2015-04-26T00:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/41 "2015-04-26T08:23:16Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Bruce Jenner became a joke and a sell out when he joined up with the Kardashians. The latest media hype is just sad. > > I could care less if he wants to chop off his dick and grow boobs. More power to [DEL]him[/DEL] her. Please, please STFU up about it. OK? I don’t want to see those headlines every time I open a news site. Strange that it bothers you so much. Valid contribution to the thread tho! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/42 "2015-04-26T09:50:22Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Like the OP, I also want to say “Who cares? Why are you telling me this? Why should it matter to me?” but that’s not fair of me. I’m being unnecessarily defensive. I care to the extent I care about people in general, and think people with a problem should be treated fairly and humanely. I do not, however, know Bruce Jenner as a person, an individual. I was, of course, aware of his\* Olympic achievements but other than that I have not followed him life. Aside from wishing him well as I would any human being I haven’t thought about him or cared about him personally. If the Bruce Jenner story is useful to someone else that’s all to the good. So, I don’t personally care about Bruce Jenner, but I do care that transgender people be treated decently and humanely. And that pretty much sums up my position on the matter. - My understanding is that he is still using male pronouns in reference to himself, so I will continue to do so as well. When that changes, I’ll change pronouns. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/43 "2015-04-26T10:11:40Z")
Note: I removed the green color because I have trouble seeing it and it makes it extremely difficult to preview this post. > [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > "Just serious issues, and I’m pretty certain that a severe hormonal imbalance is playing a part in all of it. Which I believe is often the case in situations like these. Hmm… I see you are having some misunderstandings about what transgenderism is - it is not a “hormonal imbalance”. Please educate yourself on the topic. > [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Perhaps not, but you should know that this particular topic is only destined for jokes and sneers. And women are biologically unsuited to vote and black people are destined for the bottom of the social order - hey, the 19th Century called and wants its bigotry back. Tradition is a poor excuse for bullying, which is what the jokes and sneers are about in this case. > [@](#): > > \*Also, everyone has right to their opinion. Here’s mine - quit with the green font, which, by the way, about 10% of the population are likely to have trouble reading. I suppose in one sense it’s a blessing as the color fades into the background for me and it’s almost like you put yourself on ignore for me, but honestly, it’s as annoying as crap. > [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > Wow. Way to be a martyr. …If someone were to start jabbing away at you right now you’d be crying foul. But you just asked for it by acting like a big martyr over the whole thing, like this topic is suddenly about you. It IS foul, because you’re unnecessarily adding to the pain and distress of another human being. And I IS about him because his family is going through a similar change in a member. No, he wasn’t “asking for” it, that’s the excuse the bully and the abuser uses to justify cruelty. > [@](#): > > There are a lot of opinions on this type of issue. You need to learn to handle the opposing views. Maybe when you joined up yesterday you should have taken the time and effort to read previous threads on transgender topics. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/44 "2015-04-26T10:34:47Z")
What I cannot figure out about these people is why? Ok I get it they dont feel right but afterwards, have you seen them? Jenner is one butt-ugly woman. So was Cher’s daughter, now son “Chastity” and now “Chase”. How could he/she possibly feel more “complete” when they look in the mirror? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/45 "2015-04-26T11:22:19Z")
While I can understand how shining a light on this issue can help (or hurt) others with the same or similar issues, the sexuality of celebrities is meaningless to me, as is almost all other consideration of their lives. It’s a link I don’t click on, it’s a ‘breaking news’ alert I dismiss, it’s a segment I ignore on the morning news waiting for traffic and weather. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/46 "2015-04-26T11:23:02Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > God made Bruce a man and man he will always be no matter what. Sorry, Brucie…but that’s the way it goes. It doesn’t matter one bit what you have done to your body. > > All I see are serious issues going on here. No peace, no ‘courage’, no happiness. …Just serious issues, and I’m pretty certain that a severe hormonal imbalance is playing a part in all of it. Which I believe is often the case in situations like these. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot figure out about these people is why? Ok I get it they dont feel right but afterwards, have you seen them? Jenner is one butt-ugly woman. So was Cher’s daughter, now son “Chastity” and now “Chase”. How could he/she possibly feel more “complete” when they look in the mirror? More ignorance right there than you can shake a stick at. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/47 "2015-04-26T11:34:09Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > God made Bruce a man and man he will always be no matter what. Sorry, Brucie…but that’s the way it goes. It doesn’t matter one bit what you have done to your body. God doesn’t exist, so you’re just being cruel for no reason. > [@](#): > > All I see are serious issues going on here. No peace, no ‘courage’, no happiness. …Just serious issues, and I’m pretty certain that a severe hormonal imbalance is playing a part in all of it. Which I believe is often the case in situations like these. Your beliefs aren’t of much consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/48 "2015-04-26T12:07:22Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I cannot figure out about these people is why? Ok I get it they dont feel right but afterwards, have you seen them? Jenner is one butt-ugly woman. So was Cher’s daughter, now son “Chastity” and now “Chase”. How could he/she possibly feel more “complete” when they look in the mirror? What, are beautiful women someone more womanly than ugly women? Only beautiful women are feminine? Ugly women are masculine? For these people it’s not about being _beautiful_. Even if you don’t understand it on an emotional level, these folks would rather be an ugly, mannish looking woman than a handsome man. Sure, they’d _prefer_ to be beautiful and conventionally feminine-looking but that’s not as essential as some other things. Took me a long time to wrap my head around it myself, it’s not so much looks as filling a social role, of being treated as a woman socially. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/49 "2015-04-26T12:14:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > What, are beautiful women someone more womanly than ugly women? Only beautiful women are feminine? Ugly women are masculine? > > For these people it’s not about being _beautiful_. > > Even if you don’t understand it on an emotional level, these folks would rather be an ugly, mannish looking woman than a handsome man. Sure, they’d _prefer_ to be beautiful and conventionally feminine-looking but that’s not as essential as some other things. Took me a long time to wrap my head around it myself, it’s not so much looks as filling a social role, of being treated as a woman socially. It will take me a while to wrap my head around it also. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/50 "2015-04-26T12:23:25Z")
Didn’t this guy recently kill someone with his car? I’d think that’s more of a story. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/51 "2015-04-26T12:29:21Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > … don’t take this thread and the jokes and what you may interpret as ‘hate’ personally. …There are a lot of opinions on this type of issue. You need to learn to handle the opposing views. Don’t take this personally, but your opinions are ignorant, hateful, and unscientific. Your support for bullying transgender people actively makes the world a nastier place. Your insistence on hard-to-read green ink is the desperate ploy of mind with nothing of actual value to offer. Just some opposing views. Handle it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/52 "2015-04-26T13:03:55Z")
**Leaffan** , I have no personal experience of transgender issues and can’t offer any advice but what I _can_ do is give you and your son some reassurance that the tide of public opinion is slowly turning in your favour. There is undoubtedly a more sympathetic outlook from the general public, at least that is one thing that smoothes the way for whatever decisions you have to make. Hard enough to consider these issues , so much harder still if you know one outcome would be looked upon with horror. So take whatever comfort you can from this. Anecdotally, from the UK one of the most well-loved soap characters of the last decade was [transgender](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayley_Cropper), also the boxing promoter Frank Maloney underwent gender reassignment recently and is now [Kelly Maloney](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellie_Maloney). If my media radar is still functioning I confess I didn’t detect anything other than support and best wishes for her. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/53 "2015-04-26T13:19:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Didn’t this guy recently kill someone with his car? I’d think that’s more of a story. Well… I don’t think there was an _intent_ to kill, which is what the word “murder” tends to imply. Doesn’t have anything to do with being transgender, either, as far as I know. Lots of people wind up and/or cause fatal traffic accidents every year which is why that isn’t a hot news story. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/54 "2015-04-26T13:22:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Even if you don’t understand it on an emotional level, these folks would rather be an ugly, mannish looking woman than a handsome man. That happens to be true of many cis-gendered women, too. The majority of women aren’t particularly beautiful, specially once they’re Jenner’s age. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/55 "2015-04-26T13:24:23Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > **Leaffan** > Anecdotally, from the UK one of the most well-loved soap characters of the last decade was [transgender](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayley_Cropper), also the boxing promoter Frank Maloney underwent gender reassignment recently and is now [Kelly Maloney](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellie_Maloney). If my media radar is still functioning I confess I didn’t detect anything other than support and best wishes for her. Perhaps there was something of a backlash and a reassessment of coverage after that incident where a transgender teacher killed herself after some less than pleasant coverage: > **[Trans teacher believed to have killed herself 'had told of press harassment'](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/mar/22/lucy-meadows-press-harassment)** > > Campaigners plan vigil outside Daily Mail over death of primary school teacher Lucy Meadows I’m also reminded of the general coverage and discussion after former US Navy Seal, Kristin Beck ‘came out’, it seemed mostly positive to me. People still find it strange and unusual, but that’s a lot better than vitriol and hatred. edited to add: I see they’ve made a documentary about her story, and it seems to have got positive reviews, looks worth checking out. > **[Lady Valor: The Kristin Beck Story (2014) ⭐ 7.3 | Documentary](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3499084/)** > > 1h 30m | Not Rated ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/56 "2015-04-26T13:52:01Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I guess you’re too young to remember Bruce Jenner in his heyday. He was the ideal man of the era. > > [http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/legacy/i/partypictures/06\_21\_12/liz/jenner.jpg](http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/legacy/i/partypictures/06_21_12/liz/jenner.jpg) > > It matters because it throws many people’s assumptions about trans people into disarray. Yeah, he was quite the he-man athlete of the day. I remember those Wheaties ads and thinking, “Oooh, he’s cute!” I’m old. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/57 "2015-04-26T13:54:18Z")
> [@Miss\_Spaulding](#): > > God made Bruce a man… Do you have actual scientific proof that God made Bruce anything, in any way at all? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/58 "2015-04-26T14:11:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Bruce Jenner became a joke and a sell out when he joined up with the Kardashians. The latest media hype is just sad. > > I could care less if he wants to chop off his dick and grow boobs. More power to [DEL]him[/DEL] her. Please, please STFU up about it. OK? I don’t want to see those headlines every time I open a news site. Maybe you need to find a better news site. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/59 "2015-04-26T14:29:25Z")
Nothing against Jenner-but the whole thing sounds scripted, just like the Kardashians. I have no interest in Jenner, or the Kardashians-but they all seem to make a lot of $$, off the endless coverage of the clan. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/60 "2015-04-26T14:38:23Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Didn’t this guy recently kill someone with his car? I’d think that’s more of a story. I assume someday if he writes a book, that’ll get mentioned, but as of right now that’s an open case and he wasn’t allowed to discuss it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542.md?page=4)