# So Bruce Jener is LGBT - Who gives a F\*CK **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 26, 2015, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542 "2015-04-26T00:42:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/101 "2015-04-27T02:44:26Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Sure. And I’m talking about, for example, the OP. I agree there too (with you, that is). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/102 "2015-04-27T02:46:53Z")
**Little Pig** , I kind of get your point. I get that it’s important, too, like people in this thread are saying, but something about it coming from someone who these days is a reality-star-celebrity, and not even just a reality-star-celebrity, but the subspecies ‘train wreckticus,’ where the draw is that the Kardashians are watched pruriently, makes it feel like someone (Jenner? ABC? the Kardashian’s business manager?) is selling the freakshow aspect and not the ‘it’s time to have a national dialogue’ aspect. I hope I can say that without seeming insensitive to the whole issue, which is important and deserving of dignity. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/103 "2015-04-27T03:32:54Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Because, as his been mentioned several times in this thread, sexual attraction and gender identity are not the same thing. It’s not a big deal if you don’t sympathize or support his decision, but at least you can understand it, right? Yes, I understand it conceptually. I know you are finding this hard to believe, but I understand the meanings of both terms. And for the record, I don’t sympathize or support the way Jenner is going about this. What he does with his body and his life is his own business, as it what he does in the privacy of his own house (with himself or consenting adults). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/104 "2015-04-27T04:06:24Z")
> [@scrotchy](#): > > You roll into a bar with your buddy, “Hey guys, this is my friend who fucks farm animals. Be tolerant you close minded fucks! Who has the next round?” :rolleyes: What did those poor farm animals do to be compared to the Kardashians? 😉 But seriously dude, how the HELL is Jenner hurting anyone? What exactly IS your problem with this? You honestly think people just have sex change operations for the hell of it? As for why he’s only doing it now, it’s possible he was in denial for years (I haven’t seen the interview, so I don’t know if he mentioned it). Or because he was afraid of having to deal with the reactions like some of those in this thread. (Oh, and he’s not “having his dick cut off”. Educate yourselves) ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/105 "2015-04-27T04:14:00Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I agree but let’s also be careful not to lump in those of us who are truly grappling with understanding this condition with those expressing random negativity. A desire to fully understand something shouldn’t be shot down as some sort of ‘instant intolerance’ or something. Wtf do you have to grapple with? Are you trans? Is a loved one trans? Then read a damn book or one of the multitude of threads where trans people on this board have shared their stories. This “Bruce is such an attention whore” and “Bruce is not meeting my pre-conceived notions of heterosexuality or masculinity” is not grappling. It’s whiny at best. And stink, there is no record. No one is mining this board as a barometer for public opinion. It is not a court room or a senate session. If you’re truly that bothered by Bruce’s choices, watch something else. I have no idea what sort of media setups you all have because this board kvetches constantly about the inescapability of shit that I manage to avoid knowing the first thing about with no effort whatsoever. Are you all trapped in some fucked up Clockwork Orange scenario? Leaffan, you and your family are in my thoughts. Love your child and let them know that love is unconditional. Life will pull no punches and it will show them their faults over and over again. Be the one to look at them with the kindest eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/106 "2015-04-27T11:54:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, missed the interview. He said he was heterosexual but now wishes to be a lesbian? No, he did NOT say he now wishes to be a lesbian. He’s not doing this to become a lesbian. Becoming a lesbian will be a _side effect_ of gender transition. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/107 "2015-04-27T11:56:15Z")
Gender identity doesn’t correlate with who you want to boink. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/108 "2015-04-27T12:01:01Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Don’t take this personally, but your opinions are ignorant, hateful, and unscientific. Your support for bullying transgender people actively makes the world a nastier place. Your insistence on hard-to-read green ink is the desperate ploy of mind with nothing of actual value to offer. > > Just some opposing views. Handle it. This. > [@hajario](#): > > Imagine how much further along we would be with gay rights if Rock Hudson had come out in the 70s. Or, in my case, if just ONE person had come out in the early 60s. I came out in 1963, and as far as I knew I was the only openly gay person in the world. It’s a lot easier to deal with things, if you know others have dealt with them, and survived. Bruce Jenner is just one, in a long line of transgendered folk. But he makes it a little easier for those who follow. There are parallels between his journey and that of a gay person, and if his story furthers understanding, it benefits us all. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/109 "2015-04-27T13:21:26Z")
So much ignorance, hatred, and just plain stupidity in this thread. It’s really depressing. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/110 "2015-04-27T13:30:05Z")
Back to the OP’s question. Who gives a fuck? Those who care about maintaining the rights and dignities of all people. If you think of Minnesota’s politics, the ONLY state that never voted for Reagan, one of the few states where the voters defeated an anti-gay marriage bill then the legislature passed gay marriage, we are typically considered a liberal oasis. (And then there’s Michele Bachman.) Now picture yourself or your child in Minnesota, and you’re out and about at a restaurant, at Target, at a sports game, in school, at work, wherever-and you have to pee. Everyone pees. EVERYONE. Now, imagine that you’re a transgendered person-you are now dressed as the opposite gender you were born- maybe you’ve even gone through part or all of the surgery. And as an adult wearing a dress and heels, you’re forced to use the men’s restroom. Or wearing a cowboy hat and full bear, you have to BY LAW use the women’s restroom. [This is an issue. One that’s in our legislature.](http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2015/03/14/trans-folks-respond-bathroom-bills-wejustneedtopee-selfies) It’s not just the big things, it’s the small things that they have to do on a daily basis that can make the world harder than it needs to be. While Bruce Jenner may not be the ideal spokesperson for the T part of GLBT due to his car accident or relationship with a reality show, or however you feel he needs to be dismissed. He is important. He’s a voice for the voiceless right now. He’s a person who is willing to take the scrutiny for a very personal thing. He’s a person who is now opening up non-hypothetical discussion of what it means to be transgendered. Understanding what it means to be transgendered is a long discussion. Even as a gay man who has been out for over twenty years, I’m still not completely sure I understand it all. There’s a lot of verbiage (Transgendered vs transsexual vs cis-gendered vs transvestite vs et al) that take a while understanding the differences. And there’s the fact that we as humans like our boxes. We hate our boxes to be played with, we hate it when something doesn’t fit exactly into one boxes and in reality that one thing should be in more than one box at the same time blows our collective minds. All the times we like to insist that we are more complex than someone else could understand seems to be forgotten when we realize that other folks are just as complex. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/111 "2015-04-27T13:35:42Z")
Maybe it’s some sort of sexual decathlon. He needs to get the **T** before he can mark off the **L**. I can only wonder what the other six events are. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/112 "2015-04-27T13:44:04Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > So much ignorance, hatred, and just plain stupidity in this thread. It’s really depressing. Here’s [something more uplifting](http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman-he-is-a-sick-and-delusional-man/) to cheer you up. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/113 "2015-04-27T13:59:13Z")
I was fairly annoyed that my entire Twitter feed was consumed they this news for awhile there. I personally don’t care if Bruce Jenner (or anyone for that matter) wants to change their gender much in that same way that I don’t care what two or more consenting people do to each other in the bedroom. Stuff like this isn’t news. Earthquakes in Nepal are news. Mr/Ms Jenner’s life choices, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/114 "2015-04-27T14:19:18Z")
I’d just like to say thank you to the OP. Until five minutes ago, I didn’t give a fuck about Bruce Jenner and had recoiled from following his story because of my intense dislike of anything Kardashian-related. After reading that his coming out has helped other people, I feel bad for feeling that way and am resolved to do better (especially since gender reassignment is something I have a hard time getting my head around, too.) > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > As to Jenner… Yeah, I saw the interview, and I heard what he said. I am not confusing sexual orientation with gender identity. I just cannot wrap my head around what he said. I just don’t _ **understand** _ it. You say you do? Ok… Great. But if a guy is heterosexual, I personally don’t understand the desire to change gender to be a homosexual. I truly don’t. Sorry. For a person who doesn’t understand any of this, you sure have a lot of firm opinions about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/115 "2015-04-27T14:20:00Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Maybe it’s some sort of sexual decathlon. He needs to get the **T** before he can mark off the **L**. > I can only wonder what the other six events are. Actually, if his taste in partners hasn’t changed, that’s kind of a twofer. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/116 "2015-04-27T14:21:34Z")
> [@UncleRojelio](#): > > I was fairly annoyed that my entire Twitter feed was consumed they this news for awhile there. I personally don’t care if Bruce Jenner (or anyone for that matter) wants to change their gender much in that same way that I don’t care what two or more consenting people do to each other in the bedroom. Stuff like this isn’t news. Earthquakes in Nepal are news. Mr/Ms Jenner’s life choices, not so much. Except it is news for quite a lot of people, which you would have realized if you read the thread responses. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/117 "2015-04-27T14:59:21Z")
Even this thread here is a good example of why it’s important to share out loud. I have been reading this thread and getting more and more dismayed about the whole thing, how people were being so hurtful. I was thinking maybe I am too sensitive, maybe I can’t deal with opposing viewpoints the right way, maybe the SDMB isn’t the place for me anymore. Seriously, I was getting bummed out (I am not transgendered - I am seriously empathetic to all, though) Then I read some comments that matched with what I was thinking and feeling, and realized that I am not too sensitive and there are others around who feel the way I do and I can stick around and not feel too oogy all the time about other posters. This anecdote is 100% true, but of course of no major consequence to anyone in the world. But imagine if I were a person who had gender identity issues and didn’t know if it was ok or not to feel that way. Or didn’t know what steps could be taken, or if anyone else felt like they did. Or if it was worth it to even keep living. That’s why it’s important for Bruce Jenner to speak out. And Jenner in particular because he is famous and his name will make that many more people tune in just to gawk. And presented the right way (I haven’t watched it but from what I read it was all very sympathetic) it will make a handful of the looky-loos have a better understanding of what he and every other trans person in the world is going through or went through. If some random trans person with no name recognition went on TV with Diane Sawyer, there are a lot of people who would have missed out on being educated that night. A LOT. Maybe even a lot of closeted trans people would have missed out on it because they couldn’t watch such an interview unless it was a “TV event.” Thanks to others for vocalizing your disgust in the digusted. It did help me! ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/118 "2015-04-27T15:11:00Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Except it is news for quite a lot of people, which you would have realized if you read the thread responses. Except that’s not what the OP asked. Personally, I don’t give a F\*CK. I’ve never met the guy, my total time on southern CA is about one hour in LAX (so I have no clue of the neighborhood where his accident occurred). I also think he’s a sideshow freak, to be pointed at snickered, like the bearded lady or the tattooed man. No, not because of his interview on Fri night but his last 5 (?) years on that mindless drivel ‘reality’ show. He’s one of _‘those’_\* people, which means I can’t help but thinking that some part of this is for the publicity, or to set up a future, paid special/show. - Reality show, famous-for-being-famous celebrity whores ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/119 "2015-04-27T15:18:38Z")
Seriously? Would _you_ CHANGE SEX for the lulz? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542/120 "2015-04-27T15:22:16Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Seriously? Would _you_ CHANGE SEX for the lulz? Exactly. That makes no sense. You people who are so horrifically offended by him/her really need to take a look at yourself and ask why. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-bruce-jener-is-lgbt-who-gives-a-f-ck/718542.md?page=7)