# So-called 'abused' prisoners = The beheaders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714 "2004-05-12T01:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/101 "2004-05-12T19:47:33Z")
Can you provide a cite for your claims? I’ve never heard of them in the mainstream media yet. And there has to be one standard: if we claim that (and I know the following are from different posters) > [@](#): > > Al Quaida is a terrorist organisation, which doesn’t pretend that it will adhere to the terms of the GC. > > The American government and its military are held to higher standards, because they ARE NOT supposed to be terrorists. …that means that you must agree that > [@](#): > > The West is still unmeasurably morally superior to the Arab world. You must answer both questions yes or both no. If you expect the US to be judged more harshly than the terrorists, you must also acknowledge that the US is morally superior. If you say no - they just be judged according to the same standard, then you must also agree that they are roughly equivalent in terms of moral standards. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/102 "2004-05-12T19:53:17Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > The chances of stabilizing Iraq are not enhanced by arguments that the acts of a civilized Western democracy are rendered less culpable because its opponents, a gang of stateless ideological terrorists, are worse. … > > Having read this and other threads, having heard the comments of the vitriolic idiot the good people of Oklahoma sent to the US Senate, having listened to the froth and blather that is turning up on the talk shows, … > > We cannon maintain our self respect when our response to murderous madmen is to ourselves become murderous madmen. Here is a professor of foreigh policy at Pepperdine University who appears to think that the solution the the GW SNAFU might be to become[murderous madmen.](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-herschensohn12may12,1,4021093.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions) Sorta puts a new twist on “What the hell are they teaching the kids these days?” ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/103 "2004-05-12T20:26:25Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Or misinformed due to bogus pics and information > [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=38464](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38464) So lets see: you link us to a story that has no relationship to any of the cases that **Diogenes** listed, from a website whose name is synonymous with lying shitheads. I’ll take that as an admission, that you are, in his words, “a deliberately disingenuous fuck”. > [@](#): > > Can you provide a cite for your claims? I’ve never heard of them in the mainstream media yet? I assume that this is addressed to **Diogenes**. Well, all of his claims were proved in a post by **Simon** on the first page. It never hurts to read the thread before you respond. Also check out the thread started by **alaricgoth** last weekend. ---
**Author:** ![KellyM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/57b2e6/32.png) [@KellyM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyM)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/104 "2004-05-12T20:58:36Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What does this story have to do with anything I cited? > > Do you have a more reliable source for this story than WND? I can’t find anything on a google news search. I’ve read the [Boston Globe](http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/05/12/2_cite_photos_purported_to_show_abuse/) story in question, and based on the description of the photos they gave there they are likely the same pictures that I saw a week or so ago when they were mentioned in the LiveJournal “feminist” community. The consensus there is that they were porn, and fake: the shots are framed and blocked exactly like you’d expect a porn shot to be framed, and several of the poses are classic porn poses (especially the one of a woman’s face with four or five penises arrayed about it with one just touching her mouth – very classic porn shot, that, and totally improbable in an actual gang rape situation). Also, the “soldiers” were wearing Basic BDUs instead of Desert BDUs, and some of the “soldiers” were wearing athletic shoes instead of boots. The weapons shown were not military issue and nobody was wearing an identifiable uniform. They looked exactly what you’d expect from an American porn studio that was asked to make porn depicting soldiers “raping” women. They looked **nothing** like the photos we’ve been seeing out of Iraq. We could not decide whether they were commissioned especially for the website, or just winnowed out of pre-existing content. WND claims that they’re lifted from a website called “Iraq Babes” being operated out of Pennsylvania; take that as you wish. The site that was hosting them was not in English (mixture of French and a middle-Eastern language that I did not recognize) and is (as far as I know) down now. The Globe doesn’t provide copies of the pictures it alleges it has, so I can’t actually compare them to tell if they’re the same, but the description they give matches; specifically, that they were shot outside in a sandy area with hills in the background. It looks to me like the Globe got whooshed on this one. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/105 "2004-05-12T21:01:21Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > What does this story have to do with anything I cited? > > Do you have a more reliable source for this story than WND? I can’t find anything on a google news search. I’m not familiar with the source either. After seeing your response I tried to do some verification searches as well, and came up empty. That being the case, I’ll gladly withdraw the link and note it as unreliable until proven otherwise. The reason I had linked it was your mention of Iraqi prison rapes and the story made a case for bogus rape pics that are floating around that some ppl may take as being real. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/106 "2004-05-12T21:07:43Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Here is a professor of foreigh policy at Pepperdine University who appears to think that the solution the the GW SNAFU might be to become[murderous madmen.](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-herschensohn12may12,1,4021093.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions) > > Sorta puts a new twist on “What the hell are they teaching the kids these days?” Jesus fucking Christ! Do you suppose he actually froths at the mouth and jumps up and down screaming Kill! Kill! Kill! right there in the lecture hall? Academic freedom is one thing but flat out wacko is another. Of course this is the same outfit that appointed Ken Starr as the dean of its law school. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/107 "2004-05-12T21:15:59Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > So lets see: you link us to a story that has no relationship to any of the cases that **Diogenes** listed, from a website whose name is synonymous with lying shitheads. I’ll take that as an admission, that you are, in his words, “a deliberately disingenuous fuck”. Funny thing **ITR** , those words do not apear in Diogenes’ response to my post at all. So I guess we now know who the “deliberately disingenuous fuck” is. ---
**Author:** ![RindaRinda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dfb087/32.png) [@RindaRinda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RindaRinda)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/108 "2004-05-12T23:50:39Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > And there has to be one standard: if we claim that (and I know the following are from different posters) > > Al Quaida is a terrorist organisation, which doesn’t pretend that it will adhere to the terms of the GC. > > The American government and its military are held to higher standards, because they ARE NOT supposed to be terrorists. > > …that means that you must agree that > > The West is still unmeasurably morally superior to the Arab world. > > You must answer both questions yes or both no. If you expect the US to be judged more harshly than the terrorists, you must also acknowledge that the US is morally superior. If you say no - they just be judged according to the same standard, then you must also agree that they are roughly equivalent in terms of moral standards. Al Qaeda equals the Arab world? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/109 "2004-05-13T00:02:51Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > I assume you meant me (HA). Well, since this is now in the Pit I’ll end by saying this: > > The point of my OP was to point out that the prison ‘scandal’ is the US at its worst. And it is **several orders of magnitude** less than what happened to this American civilian. So killing an Arab isn’t as bad as killing a white man. I see. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/110 "2004-05-13T00:10:21Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So killing an Arab isn’t as bad as killing a white man. I see. I suspect that **HA** hasn’t come to grips with there being acts of murder in Abu Ghraib. I think that he’s still in the “frat-house hijinx” phase. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/111 "2004-05-13T00:21:01Z")
[This woman’s column](http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2004/stock051204.htm) sums up my feelings quite nicely. A few choice quotes: [ul][li]“Last week I was outraged at the behavior of a handful of reservists and disgusted by the pictures that have been plastered all over every media source around the world. I am no longer outraged”[/li][li]“The American outrage over the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners was immediate and loud. Where is the Muslim outrage as these things butcher in the name of their God? Where is the anger over the image that has become the face of Islam? Islam has become a faith of death, hate, and murder in the eyes of the civilized world.”[/li]“If Muslims of the world do not step forward and demand the killing end, the bloodbath will never end. As Muslims allow their sons and daughters to be indoctrinated into a climate of hate where the throat-slitting of innocents and the killing of babies is cheered as a great victory for Allah, the hate will grow, but not as Muslims expect. The hate will come from our side”[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/112 "2004-05-13T00:31:20Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > [This woman’s column](http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2004/stock051204.htm) sums up my feelings quite nicely. > > [li]“The American outrage over the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners was immediate and loud. Where is the Muslim outrage as these things butcher in the name of their God? Where is the anger over the image that has become the face of Islam? Islam has become a faith of death, hate, and murder in the eyes of the civilized world.”[/li] [http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/12/iraq.berg/index.html) > [@](#): > > The United Arab Emirates condemned the beheading as a “heinous crime against the civilized world.” > > “We are ashamed because these terrorists carried out this revolting and inhumane act in the name of our religion and culture,” UAE Information Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahayan said in a written statement. > > “This disgusting brutality can never be justified and has nothing to do with Islam or with our Arab values.” [http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2004/05/12/456717-ap.html](http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2004/05/12/456717-ap.html) > [@](#): > > Some opinion-makers condemned the killing. > > “This shows how base and vile those who wear the robe of Islam have become,” said Abdullah Sahar, a Kuwait University political scientist. > > Some said it surpassed the American military’s abuse of Iraqi prisoners in Abu Ghraib prison, which has been the top story for the past 10 days in the Middle East. (and yes, I’m aware of that headline – it’s no different in my eyes than those playing down the prison abuses) ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/113 "2004-05-13T00:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=Hail Ants] [This woman’s column](http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2004/stock051204.htm) sums up my feelings quite nicely. A few choice quotes: [ul][li]“Last week I was outraged at the behavior of a handful of reservists and disgusted by the pictures that have been plastered all over every media source around the world. I am no longer outraged”[/li][li]“The American outrage over the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners was immediate and loud. Where is the Muslim outrage as these things butcher in the name of their God? Where is the anger over the image that has become the face of Islam? Islam has become a faith of death, hate, and murder in the eyes of the civilized world.”[/li][li]“If Muslims of the world do not step forward and demand the killing end, the bloodbath will never end. As Muslims allow their sons and daughters to be indoctrinated into a climate of hate where the throat-slitting of innocents and the killing of babies is cheered as a great victory for Allah, the hate will grow, but not as Muslims expect. The hate will come from our side”[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] What a joke! The most blood thirsty savages that I’ve heard have been thousands of Christian Americans with demanding genocide and torture (in this case we have an American bigot forgiving torture that includes rapes and beating deaths). The same folks with the highest innocent civillian bodycount BTW. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/114 "2004-05-13T00:36:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hail Ants] [This woman’s column](http://mensnewsdaily.com/archive/s/stock/2004/stock051204.htm) sums up my feelings quite nicely. A few choice quotes: [ul][li]“Last week I was outraged at the behavior of a handful of reservists and disgusted by the pictures that have been plastered all over every media source around the world. I am no longer outraged”[/li] [li]“The American outrage over the treatment of the Iraqi prisoners was immediate and loud. Where is the Muslim outrage as these things butcher in the name of their God? Where is the anger over the image that has become the face of Islam? Islam has become a faith of death, hate, and murder in the eyes of the civilized world.”[/li] [li]“If Muslims of the world do not step forward and demand the killing end, the bloodbath will never end. As Muslims allow their sons and daughters to be indoctrinated into a climate of hate where the throat-slitting of innocents and the killing of babies is cheered as a great victory for Allah, the hate will grow, but not as Muslims expect. The hate will come from our side”[/ul][/li][/QUOTE] I doubt she bothered to listen to what “The Muslims of the World” are saying. She also strikes me as a hateful and mean-spirited bitch who is lying through her teeth about feeling any outrage over the torture of Iraqis. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/115 "2004-05-13T01:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > So killing an Arab isn’t as bad as killing a white man. I see. No, but in the Middle East killing an ‘infidel’ or a ‘zionist’ never seems to be as bad as killing a muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/116 "2004-05-13T01:30:07Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > No, but in the Middle East killing an ‘infidel’ or a ‘zionist’ never seems to be as bad as killing a muslim. And in the West, killing an Arab or a muslim never seems to be as bad as killing an American. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/117 "2004-05-13T01:41:06Z")
> [@](#): > > No, but in the Middle East killing an ‘infidel’ or a ‘zionist’ never seems to be as bad as killing a muslim. > > And in the West, killing an Arab or a muslim never seems to be as bad as killing an American. Perspective’s a bitch, ain’t it? ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/118 "2004-05-13T01:50:31Z")
Oh, goody! The coward’s back and says that a column sums up his feelings. So let’s take a gander, shall we? > [@](#): > > These things are afraid of real soldiers. They can only butcher men with their hands bound. They can only blow up children and execute babies and pregnant women. They are cowards. Well, see, if this hag wants to bitch about something, she really oughta look into the fact that not a single one of the Abu Ghraib prisoners was, y’know, running and shooting back. 'Samatter of fact, many of them had their hands bound. Just like Mr Berg. And comparing the actions of a handful of men in Iraq who claim to be affiliated with Al Qaida (and, I hasten to add, probably are) to Hezbollah is nothing short of blind ignorance. Of course, **HailAnts** feels that this column speaks for him (not sure, her?), which I believe wholeheartedly. Let’s do some more, shall we? > [@](#): > > When the war on terror began on September 11, 2001, I didn’t blame Muslims for the carnage. Last week I didn’t blame Muslims as a whole for the butchery seen now around the world. My opinion is changing, however. Firstly, **HA** , this is IMHO, absolute bullshit. Y’know, when Jesus watches you read tripe like this, it makes him roll over in his grave. Please stop treating Jesus like a carnival ride. > [@](#): > > Americans will no longer care if we blow up a mosque. If the things are hiding there-- blow it up. What? Is this woman too fucking stupid to read the latest that’s gone down inre Al Sadr? This column that the coward says speaks for him is absolute crap. Jingoistic bullshit wrapped up in a big red white and blue bow. Intellectual dishonesty aimed toward the lowest common denominator, which, if **HA** is to be believed has not only been hit, but assimilated. Bravo, you fucking coward. Waste ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/119 "2004-05-13T02:18:54Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > Perspective’s a bitch, ain’t it? The mental gynmastics that some people seem to be going through to call for the violent deaths of many in retribution for the deaths of one in this case – you know, to prove we’re better than them – is truly staggering. Like frightened animals. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/120 "2004-05-13T02:21:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Wassamatter? You don’t like having people point out to you just how stupid you are? Or are you off to find a board filled with assholes and bigots who agree with you I don’t bother posting in The Pit because of insightful musing such as these. Yes, you’re right. Bush is Hitler, those prison guards are his jack-booted SS troops, the US is the cause of all the evil in the world… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714.md?page=7)