# So-called 'abused' prisoners = The beheaders **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714 "2004-05-12T01:31:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/141 "2004-05-13T13:46:42Z")
> [@Hail Ants](#): > > Let me **really** leave this Pit crap with a bang. Nah, I suspect you’ll be back. > [@](#): > > I’ve just had the pleasure of watching the unedited Nick Berg video. Not Sure that **pleasure** is the word I would use. Of course, I’m not pathologically obsessed with having other people act as my proxy to kill and/or sodomize those who I have never met, and who may very well not have any ties whatsoever to those who beheaded Mr Berg. In **Hail Ants** world, that means that I’m comparing Bush to Hitler and Abu Ghraib guards to SS members. I’m intensely grateful that I don’t live in your world. Too much delusion for my taste. > [@](#): > > Or maybe I need to switch to decaf… Or maybe hemlock tea. And since so many others have pointed out to you the idiocy of your position, I suppose I’m done for now. So, waddaya gotta say **now** , ya fucking coward? Waste ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/142 "2004-05-13T14:35:02Z")
Regarding the beheading video: “It seems that no matter how hard we try, we just can’t out psychopath Al-Qaeda.” — Jon Stewart, 12 May, 2004 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/143 "2004-05-13T14:50:39Z")
I have to say I wouldn’t view this action as psychopathic. It’s actually quite clever if you think about it dispassionately. Possible results of the action(not all by any means) :- Pressure put on by public to leave. Leaving Iraq open for more influence from extreme Islamic groups like AQ. It also help them with their “The west is weak willed” BS :- Get US soldiers angry. Possibly leading to more anger on the streets and pressure on the Allies. :- Giving already angry and grieving Iraqi’s a show of vengeance against the Americans. All in all I can’t really see a downside to these tactics from a AQ standpoint but if people just want to dismiss their enemies as brainless madmen then good luck to them coz they’ll need it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/144 "2004-05-13T15:07:32Z")
It might not be brainless, but it is certainly spineless. And each of its participants and defenders is a “hatefilled cunt of a human being”. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/145 "2004-05-13T15:09:34Z")
No question about it **Lib**. Did you for some reason think I didn’t feel that way? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/146 "2004-05-13T15:10:41Z")
Please tell me how you feel. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/147 "2004-05-13T15:24:21Z")
Sometimes I think it might be valuable to have a sticky thread called “I condemn terrorist acts”. Then people like **yojimbo** can sign up to it, and get on with a proper discussion without people hinting that he doesn’t condemn them. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/148 "2004-05-13T15:31:21Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > I have to say I wouldn’t view this action as psychopathic. It’s actually quite clever if you think about it dispassionately. > > Possible results of the action(not all by any means) > > :- Pressure put on by public to leave. Leaving Iraq open for more influence from extreme Islamic groups like AQ. It also help them with their “The west is weak willed” BS > > :- Get US soldiers angry. Possibly leading to more anger on the streets and pressure on the Allies. > > :- Giving already angry and grieving Iraqi’s a show of vengeance against the Americans. > > All in all I can’t really see a downside to these tactics from a AQ standpoint but if people just want to dismiss their enemies as brainless madmen then good luck to them coz they’ll need it. These people want Bush to win the next election, they want polarisation to further their chances of overthrowing existing Arab govts. The last thing they want is the American public wimping out and getting rid of Bush - he’s they’re most potent recruiting tool. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/149 "2004-05-13T15:42:23Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Sometimes I think it might be valuable to have a sticky thread called “I condemn terrorist acts”. Then people like **yojimbo** can sign up to it, and get on with a proper discussion without people hinting that he doesn’t condemn them. Hinting? When have you known me to hint? If I have something to say, I say it. In fact, I have taken considerable criticism for exactly that lately. It just seems to me that there ought to be some things that Democrats and Republicans can see eye-to-eye on without hedging, drifting, or deflecting of any kind. Cutting off a man’s head with a fucking knife is worse by any reasonable standard than sexually abusing him. But the worst of it is that, if this were Gore atop all this (yes, yes, I know, Gore would never have made any mistakes) — then the roles would be reversed. No wonder the polls are so tight this year. You may as well flip a coin to choose between these two parties. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/150 "2004-05-13T15:44:04Z")
Mostly I feel anger and frustration because of the idiocy and short sightedness of the planning and execution of the war. I feel sorry for all involved. From my childhood I’ve heard about and knew about terrorism. Every news cast was about a soldier, policeman, innocent person, terrorist etc getting killed in the north or a bomb threat in some place or another or somebody starving themselves to death over a principle so forgive me if I’m a bit cynical and not overly emotional about such atrocities. I did cry like a baby looking at those people jump from the WTC though and at some of the video from inside a Baghdad hospital that showed a young girl of about 4 with a shoulder wound from a sniper shot. Sometimes images just get to you. People who brainlessly support violence on both sides piss me off to the extreme. I can see why some poor downtrodden bastard could be manipulated to piss his life away in a “good fight” against the enemy but wankers who sit over coffee and bang on about how whatever side they have chosen is right to kill and destroy people but the other side are animals are stupid fuckers IMO. I don’t like people getting killed from either side but know that people die and sometimes they need to be killed. The people that cut that man’s head off are angry violent fuckers no question about it but they are no worse that the million and one angry violent fuckers who have walked this earth and will continue to do so as long as humans remain on this planet. The soldiers who tortured those prisoners are no worse than anybody who have abused positions of power from any country you’d care to mention. Anybody who calls for the destruction of a group, race or whatever or people is a cunt in my world. On preview **tagos** don’t fool yourself that Kerry in power would change the situation drastically. The WTC attack was not carried out because of who was in power. We and I mean we because these bastards hate the west in general have a fight on our hands. They don’t want nice little catholic Ireland either. From what I’ve seen and heard the majority of Americans supported the actions of Bush including Democrats and only are now starting to pull back because it’s not turning out well. This is almost exactly opposite to the rest of the western worlds feelings(yes I know we weren’t attacked on 9/11) so forgive me if 'm not overly optimistic about how a Kerry led America would react to the threats it now faces. One thing is certain it couldn’t be any worse but that doesn’t mean it will get any better. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/151 "2004-05-13T15:57:35Z")
I object to the use of the word cunt being used as an epithet in this instance. I’ve known a number of cunts in my life, and let it suffice to say that some of my best friends have been cunts. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/152 "2004-05-13T16:11:59Z")
**Lib** [here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=172704) how a felt a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/153 "2004-05-13T16:26:57Z")
To say that the death of an American prisoner of AQ is better - or worse - than the death of an Iraqi prisoner of the US is offensive. To think that the people that perpetrated these actions represent Americans or Arabs in general is a sign of ignorance. To believe that Americans are inherently better - or worse - than Arabs because of said actions is racist. To call for the demise of large groups of Americans or Arabs that may or may not be involved in, agreed or supported these actions is despicable. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/154 "2004-05-13T16:34:02Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > **Lib** [here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=172704) how a felt a year ago. Thanks for sharing that, Yo. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/155 "2004-05-13T16:40:11Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > I’m not familiar with the source either. After seeing your response I tried to do some verification searches as well, and came up empty. That being the case, I’ll gladly withdraw the link and note it as unreliable until proven otherwise. Well, looks like my original linked source was correct per the following AP story. > [@](#): > > BOSTON (AP) - The Boston Globe apologized Thursday for running a > photo containing sexually graphic images that purported to show > U.S. soldiers raping Iraqi women. > In an editor’s note, the newspaper said the photograph `did not meet Globe standards for publication'' because the images `were > overly graphic and the purported abuse portrayed had not been > authenticated.’’ Here was the original link: [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE\_ID=38464](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=38464) > [@ITR champion](#): > > So lets see: you link us to a story that has no relationship to any of the cases that **Diogenes** listed, from a website whose name is synonymous with lying shitheads. **ITR** , hope you like the taste of that crow… ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/156 "2004-05-13T16:53:07Z")
> [@](#): > > **KellyM** said: > Also, the “soldiers” were wearing Basic BDUs instead of Desert BDUs, and some of the “soldiers” were wearing athletic shoes instead of boots. The weapons shown were not military issue and nobody was wearing an identifiable uniform. Not only the glaring difference between the forest camo and the desert camo, forest camo being totally inappropriate and not what the soldiers in Iraq are wearing, but the pattern of the camo didn’t appear to match a US camo pattern for the ‘jungle type’ BDUs that have been in popular use since, I do believe Vietnam. Also notable were that the uniforms there were not even BDU quality, which can be purchased by the general public, but looked to be just poor knockoffs made out of very flimsy material. I remember hearing that the movie the stills were taken from was called ‘Sex in the Desert’ and it was filmed in 2002 or 2003. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/157 "2004-05-13T17:16:11Z")
[Corrected link from **flickster** ’s recent post.](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38464) (Cutting and pasting the string into which vB has already inserted an ellipsis produces an invalid link.) * * * I’m not sure what the actual argument is, here. The Boston Globe got snookered into running a fake photo (photos?) purportedly excerpted from “home movies” taken at Abu Ghraib. (Bad on the Boston Globe.) World Net Daily played into the same silliness. (Typical of the WND.) The Globe story also had “helpful” comments from a spokesman ofr the Nation of Islam. (Again, typical of the NoI.) None of this has anything to do with _actual_ reports of rapes, sodomy, and other forms of abuse that have been leaking out of the U.S.-run Iraqi prisons since last summer (although the reports failed to make it across the Alantic until recently). There seem to be a number of quite serious and quite believable charges regarding the actions of the U.S. MP and MI units in the prisons. I do not know how many of them have been substantiated at this point, but they are not really connected to the bogus film outtakes except to the extent that a guy from NoI was willing to believe tham and some editors at the Boston Globe were too hasty in running _that_ story. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/158 "2004-05-13T18:23:44Z")
I fail to see how the WND played into any silliness by informing the Globe that the photos were fake and then reporting on the Globe’s error when they were ran anyway. My point in proving the link in the 1st place was to illustrate how some of the rape stories were based on bogus information. I’m not saying there were no actual rapes that took place (if they did the guilty parties must be punished), I just haven’t seen any offical verification that they took place. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/159 "2004-05-13T23:01:36Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Well, looks like my original linked source was correct per the following AP story. > > Here was the original link: > [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE\_ID=38464](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/a...RTICLE_ID=38464) > **ITR** , hope you like the taste of that crow… Ummm, help me out here. It began when **Diogenes** asserted that rapes and murders had been committed by U.S. prison guards, and **SimonX** backed that up with links to American officials who admitted that it was true. you then posted to a story on WorldNetDaily discussing another story in the Boston Globe that was not in any way relevant to anything that had been said in the thread prior to that point. I pointed out how totally irrelevant your claim was. The AP story that you linked doesn’t do much to change the fact that the Boston Globe story was not in any way connected to the subject of the thread, does it now? So why don’t you explain how all of this adds up to “crow”? > [@](#): > > I just haven’t seen any offical verification that they took place. Well try reading page one of the thread, and then you’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2004, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714/160 "2004-05-13T23:06:12Z")
What the fucking hell, I’ll save you the trouble of going back to page one, which no one should have to read anyway: [http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~6439~2135248,00.html](http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~6439~2135248,00.html) “We are talking about rape and murder here.” So said Lindsey Graham. Is that verification official enough for you? By the way, I’d still love to hear your reaction to the WND commentary that praises bin Laden and advocates mass murder of American civilians. My characterization of them as lying shitheads still stands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-abused-prisoners-the-beheaders/244714.md?page=9)