# So-Called “Cancel Culture”, Social Media and Bullying **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676 "2020-08-09T23:29:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/363 "2020-08-18T12:29:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But what kind of dumb? Dumb as in “once I forgot to double-check the source statistics”? Or dumb as in “unwittingly gave rhetorical aid to white supremacists and/or misogynists”? There’s a difference. I don’t think we’ll run out of people who managed to avoid the latter type of dumb. If only there were one kind of dumb. What a wonderful world it would be. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/364 "2020-08-18T12:31:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Meaning, you will be hard pressed to find an abundance of smart people who at some point or another haven’t said something dumb. …the level of “dumb” that we were talking about was quantified. “Actually the Bell Curve made some good points” is the level we are talking about. We are at the " Mein Kampf made some good points" level. There are more than enough smart, interesting marginalised people in the world that won’t have said anything close to that level. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/365 "2020-08-18T12:34:31Z")
I believe the case I linked is a serious problem. I just don’t think many other people here will agree, because of the subject matter. I suspect it’s exactly the sort of thing you want to see censored, and I don’t want to waste energy on a fruitless task. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/366 "2020-08-18T12:35:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > But my biggest objection is that anyone who has a problem with these things and wants to discuss them is dismissed as ‘unkind’ or a bigot, or right-wing. So a public conversation never takes place and we can never fix any of these problems. …there is still an open thread in this very forum that you opened and you and others that agree with you **dominate**. You have been treated respectfully throughout that thread. The public conversation is happening on these boards, **in this very thread**. We are having that conversation **now.** ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/367 "2020-08-18T12:36:18Z")
There’s some idea that there are these unequalled, uniquely brilliant individuals whom society can’t advance without, so we must accept their asshole behavior. No. There isn’t. For any particular problem, there are many people around the world working on them. If Henry Ford hadn’t invented the assembly line, someone else would have. When the Wright brothers invented the airplane, there were at least a dozen other people around the world who were neck-and-neck with them along the way. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/368 "2020-08-18T12:39:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is a classic right-wing tactic. Criticism is reframed as censorship. When people who are traditionally marginalized (and even if you adopt the odious position that transwomen are really just men, there aren’t many more marginalized groups of “men” than those who identify as women) speak up, especially when they’re angry at attempts to confine their freedom, conservatives like to accuse them of stripping the _conservatives_ of their freedom. So what’s the proper left-wing way to respond to appeals to emotion that totally misrepresent the issue and my position? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/369 "2020-08-18T12:40:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > For any particular problem, there are many people around the world working on them. If Henry Ford hadn’t invented the assembly line, someone else would have. When the Wright brothers invented the airplane, there were at least a dozen other people around the world who were neck-and-neck with them along the way. And nobody knows or gives a fuck about who they are. Because had they done it first, or better, we would know their names and not the Fords and Wrights of history. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/370 "2020-08-18T12:41:32Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there is still an open thread in this very forum that you opened and you and others that agree with you **dominate**. You have been treated respectfully throughout that thread. The public conversation is happening on these boards, **in this very thread**. We are having that conversation **now.** This is an obscure message board on the internet. I want a conversation that gives ordinary people a chance to learn about the issues and express their opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/371 "2020-08-18T12:42:08Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > So what’s the proper left-wing way to respond to appeals to emotion that totally misrepresent the issue and my position? …I didn’t misrepresent the issue. And I didn’t misrepresent your position. And an appeal to be kind is not an appeal to emotion and even if it were, what’s wrong with that? This isn’t a debate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/372 "2020-08-18T12:44:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > This is an obscure message board on the internet. I want a conversation that gives ordinary people a chance to learn about the issues and express their opinions. …we are ordinary people here on these boards, people have a chance to explore the issues here and express their opinions. And nothing, not even so-called “cancel culture”, stops people doing that in other places as well. The newspapers in the UK regularly post editorial articles in support of your positions. People are talking about this everywhere, all the time. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/373 "2020-08-18T12:47:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > We are at the " Mein Kampf made some good points" level. Let me know when you’re prepared to be taken seriously again. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/374 "2020-08-18T12:48:30Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Let me know when you’re prepared to be taken seriously again. …are you of the opinion that The Bell Curve actually made good points? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/375 "2020-08-18T12:53:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > For any particular problem, there are many people around the world working on them. If Henry Ford hadn’t invented the assembly line, someone else would have. When the Wright brothers invented the airplane, there were at least a dozen other people around the world who were neck-and-neck with them along the way. > > And nobody knows or gives a fuck about who they are. > > Because had they done it first, or better, we would know their names and not the Fords and Wrights of history. The point is that Ford and the Wright brothers weren’t uniquely essential to the human race such that they, or others like them, need to be protected from criticism. And, by extension, we need not be worried about people who disqualify themselves from important jobs by saying racist things. There are plenty of similarly qualified people to take their place. Indeed, as has been suggested above, there might be many non-male or non-white people who are being unfairly overlooked who would be even better choices. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/376 "2020-08-18T12:56:12Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I have no objection to calling M ‘she’ and using her preferred name. I’m objecting to changing the law in ways that will hurt women, because we are denying biological differences exist. Let’s presume for the moment that M grows up to choose a fully female gender identity. So, when M goes to Ohio State, and is need of a restroom at halftime of the Michigan game, the correct choice to “protect women” is to send M to the Men’s room. This is because men can’t be trusted to not assault women in bathrooms, so we’ll send a 19 year old woman into a Men’s room filled with college age men. This is a real world implication for how women are treated. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/377 "2020-08-18T13:00:48Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …are you of the opinion that The Bell Curve actually made good points? I have not read the book. So I’m not going to answer the question in a way that makes it look like I did. Did you? That said, nothing I’ve read on the subject makes me think that one group is either more or less intelligent than another. Cultures differ. Individuals differ. But intelligence is not determined by the color of one’s skin. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/378 "2020-08-18T13:02:39Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > So what’s the proper left-wing way to respond to appeals to emotion that totally misrepresent the issue and my position? It’s most certainly not to “totally misrepresent the issue and [your opponent’s] position” by saying things like “Telling women to ‘be kind’ is just a way of shutting us up.” Best practice would, instead, be to do your best to understand the best arguments your opponent is making, and then respond to them with evidence and reasons to show where they fall apart. This is why I keep pressing you to tell me what your best argument is. So many of the arguments you’re putting forward are completely flimsy, as if you did little more than a quick Google search. I don’t want to waste time with somethign you didn’t spend any time on yourself. Lemme know when you think you have a good argument, and I’ll engage. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/379 "2020-08-18T13:04:48Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I have not read the book. So I’m not going to answer the question in a way that makes it look like I did. Did you? …I haven’t read Mein Kampf. But I don’t need to read it to know that if someone is claiming that “it makes good points” then maybe I don’t want them to be speaking at my seminar, no matter how “smart” they happen to be. And that’s the level we are talking about here. We aren’t talking about saying a “swear word on twitter while they were in High School”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/380 "2020-08-18T13:14:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The point is that Ford and the Wright brothers weren’t uniquely essential to the human race such that they, or others like them, need to be protected from criticism. And, by extension, we need not be worried about people who disqualify themselves from important jobs by saying racist things. Who is defending racists? Ford was a huge anti-semite. Anybody saying that it’s okay because he invented the assembly line? No. People are saying that he made a contribution to industrialized society with his innovation and deserves credit for that. Just like he deserves criticism for being a racist. I know it should be simpler. i know we should only celebrate accomplishments by nice people. That isn’t how this works, unfortunately. > [@Acsenray](#): > > There are plenty of similarly qualified people to take their place. Indeed, as has been suggested above, there might be many non-male or non-white people who are being unfairly overlooked who would be even better choices. Non-white people have made tremendous contributions to humanity. Math was invented by non-white people. Non-white people were reading and writing while white people were splitting each other’s skulls with bronze swords. History is long and deep and everyone contributes. Even now. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/381 "2020-08-18T13:15:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …I haven’t read Mein Kampf. But I don’t need to read it to know that if someone is claiming that “it makes good points” then maybe I don’t want them to be speaking at my seminar, no matter how “smart” they happen to be. Have you read The Bell Curve? ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/382 "2020-08-18T13:18:43Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > For her, it’s just idle navel gazing. I’m sorry, but what? How could a question as important as “what is a woman in the eyes of the law?” be idle navel gazing to _any_ woman? The implications to our rights and ability to organize around our sex-based differences are huge. It’s great that you can empathize with the desire of your child’s classmate to have their gender affirmed, but why is that you can’t seem to do that for members of an oppressed class whose identity is being threatened? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=20)