# So-Called “Cancel Culture”, Social Media and Bullying **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676 "2020-08-09T23:29:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/383 "2020-08-18T13:20:15Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Have you read The Bell Curve? …nope, just as I stated I haven’t read Mein Kampf. Never claimed to have read it, but I’m well aware of its status in academia. Its why it was used as an example. I invoked Mein Kampf for a reason. Because it seems as if you aren’t aware of the criticisms of the Bell Curve, so I used an appropriate analogue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/384 "2020-08-18T13:25:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > The point is that Ford and the Wright brothers weren’t uniquely essential to the human race such that they, or others like them, need to be protected from criticism. And, by extension, we need not be worried about people who disqualify themselves from important jobs by saying racist things. > > Who is defending racists? Ford was a huge anti-semite. Anybody saying that it’s okay because he invented the assembly line? No. People are saying that he made a contribution to industrialized society with his innovation and deserves credit for that. Just like he deserves criticism for being a racist. > > I know it should be simpler. i know we should only celebrate accomplishments by nice people. That isn’t how this works, unfortunately. > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > There are plenty of similarly qualified people to take their place. Indeed, as has been suggested above, there might be many non-male or non-white people who are being unfairly overlooked who would be even better choices. > > Non-white people have made tremendous contributions to humanity. Math was invented by non-white people. Non-white people were reading and writing while white people were splitting each other’s skulls with bronze swords. History is long and deep and everyone contributes. Even now. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. We aren’t talking about how to view people in history. We’re talking about whether a “smart” person can disqualify emself from a job _now_ by saying something racist. It was proposed that by doing so, we are depriving ourselves of the unique expertise of someone just because that someone happens to have said something racist. My point is that no, we aren’t depriving ourselves, because there will be plenty of other people just as qualified to take their places at, say, a seminar or conference. And some of those other people might be non-male or non-white people who are overlooked for such invitations _today_ because of the preferred status of white male experts for such roles. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/385 "2020-08-18T13:30:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I didn’t misrepresent the issue. And I didn’t misrepresent your position. And an appeal to be kind is not an appeal to emotion and even if it were, what’s wrong with that? This isn’t a debate forum. You were in the other thread and know damn well that ‘being kind’ is not what anyone is objecting to. It’s people being harmed by changes to the law and the social enforcement of ideology. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/386 "2020-08-18T13:32:13Z")
It’s not all about toilets. Come to the JK Rowling thread if you are interested in discussing the real issues. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/387 "2020-08-18T13:38:27Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …nope, just as I stated I haven’t read Mein Kampf. Never claimed to have read it, but I’m well aware of its status in academia. Its why it was used as an example. I invoked Mein Kampf for a reason. Because it seems as if you aren’t aware of the criticisms of the Bell Curve, so I used an appropriate analogue. You invoke Mein Kampf to distract from the glaring problem that you haven’t read The Bell Curve and are regurgitating things you’ve heard others say about it. You have meta-knowledge of The Bell Curve but you dismiss it with such authoritative knowledge of the subject. Tell me, what are some of the “good points” to which Harris refers when he talks about the book. I confess that I actually don’t know what he has said on the subject. It’s okay if you don’t know either. Maybe we should both go find out. I’ve read Mein Kampf, btw. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/388 "2020-08-18T13:48:36Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > **Let’s presume for the moment that M grows up to choose a fully female gender identity.** So, when M goes to Ohio State, and is need of a restroom at halftime of the Michigan game, the correct choice to “protect women” is to send M to the Men’s room. This is because men can’t be trusted to not assault women in bathrooms, so we’ll send a 19 year old woman into a Men’s room filled with college age men. M grows up to _choose_ a female gender identity, eh? Think about what you’re saying (without seemingly being aware that you’re saying it). Why is M entitled to use the women’s restroom based on what you’re referring to as a choice? Female human beings don’t choose to have the bodies they do. They don’t choose to bleed periodically or have urinary incontinence as a result of pregnancies that have wrecked their pelvic floors and given them over reactive bladders. Did you know these conditions are a big reason why lines for the ladies room will always be longer at halftime than it is for men? Perhaps you do know, but you believe it doesn’t matter. In your opinion, is M and other transwomen entitled to claim space in the ladies room regardless of the position it puts women and girls in? They should just suck it up and not complain about enduring even longer wait times, as they squeeze their legs shut to keep from soiling themselves? Never mind the safety concerns that come with allowing _any_ male the right to identify into female space. Do yall really think there is any such thing as a free lunch here? Because there isn’t. For every trans inclusive demand that abuts with sex-based rights and protections, women are being forced to give up something that is already in short supply as it is. How is this fair? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/389 "2020-08-18T13:49:10Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s not all about toilets. Come to the JK Rowling thread if you are interested in discussing the real issues. I think we can agree that we don’t need to turn this thread into a rehash of that one: the toxic transphobia that so thoroughly permeates that thread is best kept over in that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/390 "2020-08-18T13:53:16Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You were in the other thread and know damn well that ‘being kind’ is not what anyone is objecting to. …I never claimed that “being kind” was what anyone in that other thread objected too. You asked the question > [@](#): > > “do you know what trans people - or the very well funded organisations representing them - are actually asking for?” **I answered that question.** That wasn’t “emotional manipulation intended to shut down debate.” I gave you an answer to your question, a mere opinion in a forum called In My Humble Opinion, nothing more than that. > [@DemonTree](#): > > It’s people being harmed by changes to the law and the social enforcement of ideology. This has nothing to do with my original comment. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/391 "2020-08-18T13:57:26Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > members of an oppressed class whose identity is being threatened? Your identity isn’t being threatened any more than marriages were being threatened by same sex marriage. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/392 "2020-08-18T13:57:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You invoke Mein Kampf **to distract** from the glaring problem that you haven’t read The Bell Curve and are regurgitating things you’ve heard others say about it. …not at all. My intention wasn’t to distract. It was to provide an analogue. > [@](#): > > You have meta-knowledge of The Bell Curve but you dismiss it with such authoritative knowledge of the subject. You misunderstand. I didn’t use it as an example. Somebody else did. It was used to set a benchmark. > [@](#): > > Tell me, what are some of the “good points” to which Harris refers when he talks about the book. I confess that I actually don’t know what he has said on the subject. It’s okay if you don’t know either. Maybe we should both go find out. Feel free to find out. And while you are at it: > [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’ve read Mein Kampf, btw. Did it make any good points? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/393 "2020-08-18T13:58:07Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > We aren’t talking about how to view people in history. We’re talking about whether a “smart” person can disqualify emself from a job _now_ by saying something racist. It was proposed that by doing so, we are depriving ourselves of the unique expertise of someone just because that someone happens to have said something racist. My point is that no, we aren’t depriving ourselves, because there will be plenty of other people just as qualified to take their places at, say, a seminar or conference. And some of those other people might be non-male or non-white people who are overlooked for such invitations _today_ because of the preferred status of white male experts for such roles. Who would you invite to speak at a conference about mapping the human genome? Would you invite Francis Collins and James Watson, or would you invite some lesser well known scientist who are not white, not male, not observant Catholic who believes the universe is created by an intelligent designer, and didn’t say some pretty wrong things about racial traits? Would you dismiss Francis Collins’ and James Watson’s contributions to the sciences? Deny them further recognition? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/394 "2020-08-18T14:04:30Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Feel free to find out. I think I will. I take it you’re okay with what you think you already know. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > Did it make any good points? It provided some disturbing insight into the evil mind that had such a profound impact in human history. Not everything worth knowing is comfortable or right. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/395 "2020-08-18T14:06:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It provided some disturbing insight into the evil mind that had such a profound impact in human history. …did it make any good points? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Not everything worth knowing is comfortable or right. I haven’t made an argument against gaining knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/396 "2020-08-18T14:07:38Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > In your opinion, is M and other transwomen entitled to claim space in the ladies room regardless of the position it puts women and girls in? They should just suck it up and not complain about enduring even longer wait times, as they squeeze their legs shut to keep from soiling themselves? Never mind the safety concerns that come with allowing _any_ male the right to identify into female space. Well, if you’re worried about long lines, I can assure you that M will be quicker in the can than natural ladies, since M won’t have menses or pregnancy complications to deal with, and every transman who uses the men’s room will bring those problems there instead. And since we’re assuming M is a transwoman, I’m not suggesting allowing any males into a female space. I am however, very interested in protecting women from men who would sneak into a bathroom for the purpose of assaulting them. I don’t believe that has anything to do with respecting transwomen. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/397 "2020-08-18T14:09:04Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I haven’t made an argument against gaining knowledge. You’ve made a point of dismissing something you don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![YWTF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/d07c76/32.png) [@YWTF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YWTF)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/398 "2020-08-18T14:11:37Z")
Tell that to female athletes who are losing to male athletes who have identified their way into women’s sports. Tell that to women who have cancer cells growing in their crevixes right now but won’t know this until too late because health information is too cryptic for those with minimal health literacy. Tell that to women who won’t be able to win lawsuits for sex-based discrimination in the workplace because their employer can point to plenty of successful “women“ to counter their claim of unfair treatment. Never mind if these “women” have beards and flow in and out of their gender identity depending on the season. Female = anyone who identifies as one, right? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/399 "2020-08-18T14:14:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You’ve made a point of dismissing something you don’t know. …did Mein Kampf, which you have read btw, make any good points? And I haven’t made a point of “dismissing something I don’t know.” I haven’t read it, but I know enough about it. I’m allowed to have an opinion about someone who argues that it “makes good points.” ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/400 "2020-08-18T14:14:22Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > we are ordinary people here on these boards, people have a chance to explore the issues here and express their opinions. And nothing, not even so-called “cancel culture”, stops people doing that in other places as well. The newspapers in the UK regularly post editorial articles in support of your positions. People are talking about this everywhere, all the time. The women’s groups trying to meet to discuss the issue were subjected to constant harassment and attempts to prevent them gathering. I feel more and more thankful that our papers are not all too indoctrinated or cowed to publish dissenting views occasionally, but I haven’t forgotten that you called them transphobic for it. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > You asked the question > > > [@](#): > > > > “do you know what trans people - or the very well funded organisations representing them - are actually asking for?” > > **I answered that question.** Yeah, you answered a question that wasn’t directed at you with an obviously misleading answer. Good going. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/401 "2020-08-18T14:21:21Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …did Mein Kampf, which you have read btw, make any good points? WTF do you imagine you’ll bait me into saying? That Hitler had some good points when he orchestrated his genocidal agenda that resulted in the murder of millions that included a grandfather I would never know and a half dozen great aunts and uncles? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/402 "2020-08-18T14:23:29Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The women’s groups trying to meet to discuss the issue were subjected to constant harassment and attempts to prevent them gathering. …so are you changing your argument now? Can you let me know when you’ve settled on a position so that I can address if fairly? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I feel more and more thankful that our papers are not all too indoctrinated or cowed to publish dissenting views occasionally, **but I haven’t forgotten that you called them transphobic for it.** They are being transphobic. Blatantly, disgustingly, transphobic. Transphobic to the point of harassment, both in response to what they post and to how they treated their transgender employees behind the scenes. I’m glad you bought that up. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Yeah, you answered a question that wasn’t directed at you with an obviously misleading answer. Good going. Well, yeah, that’s what happens when we are just ordinary people exploring issues and expressing our opinions in a forum dedicated to that very thing. You don’t get to control who answers your questions. There was nothing misleading in my answer. And even if you thought it was misleading, I came back to the thread to clarify with a pretty comprehensive rebuttal. “Be Kind” does not mean “Shut Up.” End of story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=21)