# So-Called “Cancel Culture”, Social Media and Bullying **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 9, 2020, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676 "2020-08-09T23:29:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/141 "2020-08-14T12:46:35Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > How about you describe in your own words, rather then send people off on an excursion to try to figure out your point. > > Give an example, or not. Don’t ask people to do your work for you. I’ve given examples and other people have given examples and apparently you didn’t look at them. I’m not gonna copy half the article into my comment - what do you want exactly, just a list of names? As well as JKR, the _Sun_ article mentions Sarah Jane Honeywell (a former children’s TV presenter), Killing Eve actress Jodie Comer, Taylor Swift, Gillian Philip (already discussed), Katarzyna Richter who was fired from LOT Polish Airlines after taking unflattering pictures of rival BA cabin crew and posting them on Facebook, and 19-year-old Tesco worker Jade Pinner from Essex who “found herself cancelled when she recorded a TikTok video of herself ranting about hard-to-please shoppers”. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/142 "2020-08-14T13:21:23Z")
> [@YWTF](#): > > The right is constantly condemned for its capacity to ignore and deflect the wrong sitting right in front of its face. But the left is proving to be even worse at this. All I can do is keep pointing this out in the hope that the SDMB doesn’t become an echo chamber. It’s probably too late, though. Because the Right doesn’t care about anything but maintaining a position of privilege. The Left mostly consists of a collection of marginalized groups of “everyone else” and people in a position of privilege who feel a sense of guilt over it. Epitomized (obviously) by the election of Donald Trump. The Right lost their shit when Obama got elected so in response they elected someone who epitomized their ideals - a dangerously buffoonish amoral rich white guy who likes to throw his weight around. And now the Left is losing their shit and attacking anything that isn’t “woke” enough. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/143 "2020-08-14T19:52:37Z")
If those are the examples that you have to offer, then I am assured that the concerns about cancel culture are overblown hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/144 "2020-08-14T19:55:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > As well as JKR, the _Sun_ article mentions Sarah Jane Honeywell (a former children’s TV presenter), Killing Eve actress Jodie Comer, Taylor Swift, Gillian Philip (already discussed), Katarzyna Richter who was fired from LOT Polish Airlines after taking unflattering pictures of rival BA cabin crew and posting them on Facebook, and 19-year-old Tesco worker Jade Pinner from Essex who “found herself cancelled when she recorded a TikTok video of herself ranting about hard-to-please shoppers”. Wait, I don’t know a lot of those names, but Taylor Swift? She’s an example of someone who got cancelled? Cancel culture is the most ineffective social phenomenon in history and deserves no more of our consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/145 "2020-08-14T20:27:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If those are the examples that you have to offer, then I am assured that the concerns about cancel culture are overblown hysteria I find it similar to the concerns about all the men whose lives have been ruined by false sexual harassment/assault charges. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/146 "2020-08-15T20:46:15Z")
Here’s another example: > **[More than 1,300 people sign petition urging the NHS to sack protester](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7111533/More-1-300-people-sign-petition-urging-NHS-sack-protester.html)** > > Siobhan Prigent, 34, who lives in London, was seen swearing and shouting in the face of a semi-retired grandfather at a demonstration in Parliament Square on Tuesday. And here’s the knitting purity spiral thing that was mentioned on the other thread: > **[How knitters got knotted in a purity spiral](https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/)** > > A process of moral outbidding is corroding small communities from within ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/147 "2020-08-15T20:49:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wait, I don’t know a lot of those names, but Taylor Swift? She’s an example of someone who got cancelled? Cancel culture is the most ineffective social phenomenon in history and deserves no more of our consideration. Perhaps you missed it? > **[Taylor Swift: 'Saying you're cancelled is like saying kill yourself'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49289430)** > > The singer received backlash after a row with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West in 2016. For anyone who doesn’t want to dismiss an entire phenomenon on the basis of one name, here’s the article again: > **[From JK Rowling to Taylor Swift, women are cancel culture's biggest victims](https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/12262772/cancel-culture-victims-jk-rowling-taylor-swift/)** > > WITH tears pouring silently down her cheeks, former children’s TV presenter Sarah Jane Honeywell stood on a platform edge, and almost ended her life. “I was shaking all over and really dizzy, and I… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/148 "2020-08-15T20:58:58Z")
Thank you for sharing that. It not only confirms my feeling that these concerns about cancel culture are overblown, but it also shows me one of the instigators who is hyping it and creating terror in the easily scared and misled. Through hyperbole and outright fabrication, they have managed to get you to think that this is a real thing, and have caused you to self censor. Not only that, but it has also caused you to reach out and insist that others censor themselves. It’s a fairly common tactic, accuse others of what you are doing, this gets them to shut up and let you do what you accused them of. The author of the unherd piece gets a 10 out of 10 for fear-mongering, but a -tree(3) out of 10 for accurately describing reality. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/149 "2020-08-15T21:10:41Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Perhaps you missed it? What, this? > **[Taylor Swift Is The World's Highest-Paid Celebrity With $185 Million In 2019](https://www.forbes.com/sites/monicamercuri/2019/07/10/taylor-swift-is-the-worlds-highest-paid-celebrity-with-185-million-in-2019/#2c2fe7f66c9d)** > > The pop singer lands the No. 1 spot on the Forbes 2019 Celebrity 100 list, her highest earnings year yet. Once again, hard to call her cancelled. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Sarah Jane Honeywell Now this one has some slight merit to it. She was a presenter for a children’s show, and engaged in activities that the parents of the children would be upset about. So, the company that she worked for decided that she was no longer a good fit for the position of honor they had given her. That she chose to blame others for her being fired, rather than take responsibility for her own actions is unfortunate, but I don’t see how it in any way strengthens your position that this is a real thing that anyone at all needs to actually spend any time being concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/150 "2020-08-15T21:10:53Z")
? BBC radio 4 is trying to shut people up? It’s the home of the Archers, Desert Island Discs and I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue, not exactly a hotbed of radicalism… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/152 "2020-08-15T21:46:57Z")
No, and it is a rather ridiculous assertion that that is what I said. It took me a while to unpack what it was that you were accusing here. unherd is not owned by BBC, not related to it. The fact that the author of the article that is successfully getting people like yourselves to censor yourselves and others has had a few contributions to BBC does not mean that he runs it or controls it. So, to the question, no, BBC radio 4 is not trying to shut people up. Now, to the question that I must ask you, what compelled you to ask me that question? Was it actually a misunderstanding on your part, where you thought that someone who contributes 5 pieces controls the network, or was it a loaded question, intended to accuse what you could not come out and directly accuse? In the interests of civility, I will assume the former, and now that you have been educated, you need not ask such an ignorant question again. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/153 "2020-08-15T22:39:40Z")
If cancel culture doesn’t actually, y’know, _cancel_ people, if someone whom you’re citing as a victim of it is literally the best-paid celebrity on earth, it sounds less like a problem and more like an attempt to stifle criticism by mislabeling any sort of critical debate as the enemy of free speech. That’s kind of what I thought it was already, though. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/154 "2020-08-15T22:41:55Z")
According to the article, the knitting purity spiral stuff comes from a documentary the author made for BBC Radio 4. Pretty sure in the other thread it was introduced that way. And Radio 4 is a mainstream, presumably reliable source, which is partly why I take the article seriously. I don’t pretend to understand everything in your rather cryptic post, but it sounded like you were describing come kind of conspiracy theory and claiming the knitting purity spiral stuff was ‘hyperbole and outright fabrication’. Which… doesn’t exactly fit with it being originally published by the BBC. You’ve seemed pretty reasonable in the past, so did you just not realise that was the original source? Or were you really meaning to accuse the BBC of publishing documentaries that spread fear and encourage people to censor themselves? And could you please explain what exactly you were trying to say in plain English? Some evidence wouldn’t go amiss, either. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/155 "2020-08-15T22:52:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If cancel culture doesn’t actually, y’know, _cancel_ people, if someone whom you’re citing as a victim of it is literally the best-paid celebrity on earth, it sounds less like a problem and more like an attempt to stifle criticism by mislabeling any sort of critical debate as the enemy of free speech. The original question was whether it constitutes bullying. I don’t think failing to destroy a celebrity’s career proves that one way or the other. Sometimes the cancelling efforts work, sometimes they don’t. Some people bounce back and a few never work in the same area again. It’s about the phenomenon of joining in with online mobs that pile on someone, rather than individual opinions or debate. The original question mentioned doxxing, and that is what happened to the protester who was filmed screaming at a Trump supporter. Someone then started a petition to get her fired and she ended up quitting her job. @Dr.Conrad_Shadowdale can say if that’s the sort of thing he was asking about. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/156 "2020-08-15T22:55:01Z")
K9bfriender, perhaps you could say what you would consider a genuine example of cancel culture? Because I’m starting to feel like nothing will ever be good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Conrad\_Shadowdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ea924/32.png) [@Dr.Conrad\_Shadowdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Conrad_Shadowdale)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/157 "2020-08-16T00:07:08Z")
In another direction, since we’ve mentioned Taylor Swift, don’t her fans hound any critic of Taylor’s? Certainly not canceling Taylor but is the “hounding” of, not by. the critics considered “bullying.” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/158 "2020-08-16T00:37:15Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > I agree with you. But, insofar as I understand the term (and maybe I don’t fully), “cancel culture” includes things like boycotts. not as far as I know. Boycotts (and similar tactics) are efforts to try to push for change. i.e. we won’t support/patronize you so long as you are doing this thing. e.g. people boycotting Chick-fil-A until they stopped contributing to anti-LGBTQ organizations. “cancel culture” is “we will erase you if you have ever done anything we don’t approve of, no matter how long ago it was or how young you were.” ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/159 "2020-08-16T03:13:10Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > “cancel culture” is “we will erase you if you have ever done anything we don’t approve of, But isn’t a boycott potentially a part of an “erasure” strategy? What are the tactics that “cancel culture” uses that don’t include boycotts? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Conrad\_Shadowdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ea924/32.png) [@Dr.Conrad\_Shadowdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Conrad_Shadowdale)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/160 "2020-08-16T03:44:03Z")
Specifically, do boycotts work? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676/161 "2020-08-16T04:04:05Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > > [@CairoCarol](#): > > > > I agree with you. But, insofar as I understand the term (and maybe I don’t fully), “cancel culture” includes things like boycotts. > > not as far as I know. Boycotts (and similar tactics) are efforts to try to push for change. i.e. we won’t support/patronize you so long as you are doing this thing. > e.g. people boycotting Chick-fil-A until they stopped contributing to anti-LGBTQ organizations. “cancel culture” is “we will erase you if you have ever done anything we don’t approve of, no matter how long ago it was or how young you were.” What does it mean to be “erased” and to whom has it happened? In my view, losing out on a job while keeping every other part of your privileged life is not “erasure.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-called-cancel-culture-social-media-and-bullying/917676.md?page=9)