# So calling another poster a "mongoloid" is a-ok eh? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 6, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037 "2017-05-06T23:43:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/21 "2017-05-07T04:45:19Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I didn’t want to join the thread just for the sake of tracking down a post and reporting it. But I hope someone who was part of the thread for legitimate reasons reported it. If you don’t report it, don’t assume someone else will. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/22 "2017-05-07T05:25:38Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I’m ignorant of the term used as a slur. [This is how I understood the term.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid) Can I get a reference to the usage as a slur? Definitely racist, referring to someone being “retarded” like a person with Downs Syndrome. Think of the alternative name for a Brazil nut\*. Not quite as bad as that, but in the same category. \*Calling then “Negro Toes” wouldn’t make it any less racist. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/23 "2017-05-07T05:38:12Z")
“Mongoloid” itself is not literally racist, in that it refers to the appearance, speech and mannerisms of people with obvious disabilities (many retarded people are not mongoloid as such because you might not be able to tell immediately that they are disabled, or they may have progressed to parity over more years). Where it is racist, though, is the implication that mongols resemble people with downs or similar disabilities. I suspect that that sort of language would be frowned upon in Ulaanbataar. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/24 "2017-05-07T06:07:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Mongoloid” itself is not literally racist, in that it refers to the appearance, speech and mannerisms of people with obvious disabilities (many retarded people are not mongoloid as such because you might not be able to tell immediately that they are disabled, or they may have progressed to parity over more years). Where it is racist, though, is the implication that mongols resemble people with downs or similar disabilities. I suspect that that sort of language would be frowned upon in Ulaanbataar. My understanding is the term “Mongoloid” is like “Niggardly” - it has a cromulent (or at worst, quaint) meaning but because it sounds like a racist slur, people get an attack of the vapours and so it ends up on the verboten list. I agree it’s not a term I’d personally use outside a historical context, however. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/25 "2017-05-07T06:23:01Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > My understanding is the term “Mongoloid” is like “Niggardly” - it has a cromulent (or at worst, quaint) meaning but because it sounds like a racist slur, people get an attack of the vapours and so it ends up on the verboten list. > > I agree it’s not a term I’d personally use outside a historical context, however. No. “Niggardly” has no relation to a racial term except an accident of spelling. “Mongoloid” is explicitly a racial term. Oh, he has slanty eyes, just like those “Mongoloid” people. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/26 "2017-05-07T07:00:04Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > I didn’t want to join the thread just for the sake of tracking down a post and reporting it. But I hope someone who was part of the thread for legitimate reasons reported it. Since when did you have to join a thread to report something? If you see a post that you think violates the rules, you can just click on the little exclaimation point. No posting in the thread necessary. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/27 "2017-05-07T07:06:35Z")
**Orcenio** : I hope you reported the post in question, considering you start this thread. If you didn’t, then don’t assume a moderator has even seen it. They don’t sweep through every thread looking for rules violations. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/28 "2017-05-07T07:29:18Z")
I think slurs that don’t rise to the level of hate speech are permissible in the Pit although it’s a fine line that separates one from the other. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/29 "2017-05-07T07:44:57Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > I think slurs that don’t rise to the level of hate speech are permissible in the Pit although it’s a fine line that separates one from the other. That’s true. I remember a few years ago it was ruled even some racial slurs might, in very select instances be allowed. Specifically, one white poster referred to a black poster as an “Oreo” or an “Uncle Tom”(I can’t remember which) and the mod very, very grudgingly allowed it. I would not try to repeat that nor do I think other mods would hold the same position. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/30 "2017-05-07T11:33:54Z")
If people with Down syndrome are offended by being compared to Mongols, and vice versa, shouldn’t they work that out between them? ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/31 "2017-05-07T12:21:39Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > “Mongoloid” itself is not literally racist, in that it refers to the appearance, speech and mannerisms of people with obvious disabilities (many retarded people are not mongoloid as such because you might not be able to tell immediately that they are disabled, or they may have progressed to parity over more years). Where it is racist, though, is the implication that mongols resemble people with downs or similar disabilities. I suspect that that sort of language would be frowned upon in Ulaanbataar. I always took it the other way. People with Down Syndrome look like someone from Mongolian descent, and are “idiots”. Not that Mongolian people are “idiots” because they resemble people with Down Syndrome. Obviously a nasty insult, and unacceptable in civilized society, but not racist. Whether it belongs in the Pit, well if you can say “retard”, to me this falls in the same class. However it sure tells you a lot about the person using it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/32 "2017-05-07T13:14:44Z")
It’s a racial term turned into a derogatory slur, but it’s not racist. That makes sense. I’m sure Asians use it all the time to describe people with Downs Syndrome. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/33 "2017-05-07T13:18:04Z")
I’m not sure any of it makes sense, frankly. Not my Pit, not my monkeys, thank God. But I’ll say it wouldn’t be best practices in Great Debates or Elections. It’s clearly used in this case as an insult hurled toward another poster. That could draw sanction regardless of the nature of the insult. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/34 "2017-05-07T13:22:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s a racial term turned into a derogatory slur, but it’s not racist. That makes sense. I’m sure Asians use it all the time to describe people with Downs Syndrome. If you’re making a point in reference to my post, I’m not sure I’m understanding it. I was saying that in my understanding the use of the term Mongoloid in “Mongoloid Idiot” was due to the facial appearance resemblance, not because the presumption was that “Mongoloids” were themselves idiots. Nasty and disgusting term still, but for different reasons than straight racism. Not sure why Asians would say it- it’s definitely European/English term. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/35 "2017-05-07T14:08:58Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > If you’re making a point in reference to my post, I’m not sure I’m understanding it. > > I was saying that in my understanding the use of the term Mongoloid in “Mongoloid Idiot” was due to the facial appearance resemblance, not because the presumption was that “Mongoloids” were themselves idiots. Nasty and disgusting term still, but for different reasons than straight racism. It was a term coined back in the days when white people didn’t concern themselves with offending people of other races or ethnicities. A time when all non-white peoples were thought to be inferior in some way or another. Ask yourself if you think the term would be coined today, and if not why not. And I mean coined by mainstream speakers of English. > [@](#): > > Not sure why Asians would say it- it’s definitely European/English term. I was referring to ethnic Asians living in English speaking countries, like the US. There are millions of such people. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/36 "2017-05-07T14:13:09Z")
John Down, when describing the syndrome in his paper “Observations on an Ethnic Classification of Idiots” insisted that it was possible to classify them into types like Malay, Caucasian, Ethiopian and, of course, the Mongolian type of idiot. Down did argue that the fact that these disorders could make European idiots look like Asians proved that humans are all of one species. Still when I was nursing people with Down Syndrome in the 1970s it was already in appalling taste to treat Down’s choice of language as though it had any merit. Mind you that was In Australia. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/37 "2017-05-07T14:21:55Z")
No, it’s not OK and I can’t think of any time when it would. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/38 "2017-05-07T14:49:24Z")
For the record I reported the post yesterday morning. I opened this thread last night after I saw the poster addressed by a mod (outside the role of moderation). Thus my report was probably seen and dismissed, which raised questions. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/39 "2017-05-07T16:19:28Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Still when I was nursing people with Down Syndrome in the 1970s it was already in appalling taste to treat Down’s choice of language as though it had any merit. Mind you that was In Australia. I think it probably has less to do with the particular country than with the particular population within that country. As someone working with Down syndrome people, you were likely part of a population that was more thoughtful and sensitive about the terminology, and ahead of the curve when it came to proper usage. Outside of that relatively small circle, i think things were somewhat different. I grew up in Australia, and the bulk of my childhood and teen years were in the second half of the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s. Until my mid-teens at least, i thought that “mongoloid” was the standard and completely proper name for someone with Down syndrome. It never occurred to me that it might be offensive. I think i first heard the term from my mother, and she was (and is) someone who would never use a term like that if she thought it was offensive. But she wasn’t the only one; it was pretty much the standard term in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/40 "2017-05-07T17:10:52Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I think it probably has less to do with the particular country than with the particular population within that country. As someone working with Down syndrome people, you were likely part of a population that was more thoughtful and sensitive about the terminology, and ahead of the curve when it came to proper usage. Outside of that relatively small circle, i think things were somewhat different. > > I grew up in Australia, and the bulk of my childhood and teen years were in the second half of the 1970s and the first half of the 1980s. Until my mid-teens at least, i thought that “mongoloid” was the standard and completely proper name for someone with Down syndrome. It never occurred to me that it might be offensive. I think i first heard the term from my mother, and she was (and is) someone who would never use a term like that if she thought it was offensive. But she wasn’t the only one; it was pretty much the standard term in my experience. I grew up in the 60s in the US, but that was my experience, too. It’s easy to compartmentalize something you grow up with. I never heard the term “Downs Syndrome” until I was in my later teens. “Mongoloids” were the scary kids you tried to stay away from because they’d spit on you or scratch you or otherwise make things very uncomfortable. We had to carpool with a family that had a child with Downs Syndrome, and we’d fight over who had to suffer by sitting next to The Mongoloid in the station wagon. I’m usually the last one to call “racist”, and frankly I’d be fine if we had no rules at all in the Pit. But let’s call a spade a spade here, and recognize that “Mongoloid” is a racist term. If the mods want to allow it, that’s fine with me. The fewer rules in the Pit the better. I’d put it on par with someone saying: _You need to get yourself a Jew lawyer!_ Aren’t they actually saying that Jewish people make good lawyers, so how can that be offensive??? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037.md?page=3)