# So calling another poster a "mongoloid" is a-ok eh? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 6, 2017, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037 "2017-05-06T23:43:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/61 "2017-05-08T00:32:47Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > So, is “Mongoloid” actionable? I am not a Pit mod, you’d have to ask him…however if no action has been taken on it yet, then chances are: No. Speaking for myself: If it were used in a forum I modded, I would mod it as being an insult just as I would anyone calling another poster an insulting name outside of the Pit. If I were a Pit mod and it was used in that forum (as it was in this case), however…no, I would not mod it as, IMO, it doesn’t quite rise to the level of “hate” speech as other words with a more controversial history do. YM obviously V. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/62 "2017-05-08T04:00:05Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > What makes a slur cross the line into hate speech in general, much less in the judgement of a mod on a message board is not easily defined. The board allows “wetback” and “illegal” in the Pit as slurs toward Mexican Americans, “retard” which is considered a slur against the mentally handicapped, etc. I don’t believe “wetback” is allowed – I think a poster was warned about it. I don’t know about illegal. As for retard, it seems to be on the euphemism treadmill towards “idiot”, so far as a word for mentally handicapped. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/63 "2017-05-08T07:36:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I don’t believe “wetback” is allowed – I think a poster was warned about it. I don’t know about illegal. As for retard, it seems to be on the euphemism treadmill towards “idiot”, so far as a word for mentally handicapped. Wait, “Idiot” is offensive now? What are we supposed to call stupid people who annoy us with their stupidity? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/64 "2017-05-08T08:13:01Z")
We are to call them **Marti** — oh, uh, nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/65 "2017-05-08T10:09:37Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I can’t speak for **John**. But I can give what I think. No need. I understood him the first time. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/66 "2017-05-08T12:32:48Z")
I would consider it a racist term. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/67 "2017-05-08T12:37:19Z")
Both racist and downright revolting. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/68 "2017-05-08T13:03:47Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > A “slur” just means a description of someone that is likely to insult them or damage their reputation. This is not only allowed but encouraged in the Pit. > > You’re talking about slurs that have been used to the point they are considered to be hate speech. I agree that mongoloid is a slur, and has become considered to be a racial slur, but it probably doesn’t rate as hate speech like nigger and faggot do. > > What makes a slur cross the line into hate speech in general, much less in the judgement of a mod on a message board is not easily defined. The board allows “wetback” and “illegal” in the Pit as slurs toward Mexican Americans, “retard” which is considered a slur against the mentally handicapped, etc. I’m at a loss to understand how something can be a racial slur, and not also be hate speech, but maybe the rules sticky about Hate Speech should be changed to something clearer, if you are correct. Right now it says: _If you say hateful and/or racist things, you may get warned or banned._ That certainly sounds to me like a term does not have to be deemed hateful in order to be moderated. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/69 "2017-05-08T22:06:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m at a loss to understand how something can be a racial slur, and not also be hate speech, but maybe the rules sticky about Hate Speech should be changed to something clearer, if you are correct. Right now it says: > > _If you say hateful and/or racist things, you may get warned or banned._ > > That certainly sounds to me like a term does not have to be deemed hateful in order to be moderated. Well like I said the line between them is very fine. People often use slurs like ‘bitch’ or ‘pussy’ to insult someone too. That is very offensive to some women because it’s basically saying ‘this is an insult because women are bad and you are like a woman.’ Same goes for something like “that is so gay.” Even if the person doesn’t mean it as a slur against gays, it’s saying being gay is bad and so by comparison so is whatever they are describing. Saying “you’re an Indian giver” if someone reneges on a promised gift is obviously insulting to all native Americans along with the intended target. That’s pretty much how I read mongoloid as it affects Mongolians or the mentally disabled - the intention is to say ‘you are so stupid it’s like you are mentally disabled’ but at the same time it manages to be offensive to the mentally disabled and Mongolians. Despite being broadly offensive to large groups of people none of those are considered off limits in the Pit as far as I know. As others have said it certainly reflects something about the person choosing such words. As far as allowed language in the Pit though, I think we would have to expand the forbidden words list to dozens or hundreds of terms to cover every such case. I’d prefer if people who choose such insults get piled on by other posters. In a forum intended to allow posters to insult each other, asking mods to ensure that they insult just that one person but not anyone else is asking a lot. There are some bright line, obviously off limits terms and I’m not completely against adding “mongoloid” to them but I just don’t see it as being the same level of hate speech that does get modded regularly in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2017, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/70 "2017-05-08T23:55:02Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Wait, “Idiot” is offensive now? What are we supposed to call stupid people who annoy us with their stupidity? Uh no. I mean, retarded is getting more and more outdated. (Once upon a time, “idiot” was the common term for people who were mentally disabled, just like retarded was. You didn’t know that?) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/71 "2017-05-09T00:00:56Z")
Maybe the mods left it be because he wrote “_gurgling_ mongoloid”. That makes it ok. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/72 "2017-05-09T02:58:11Z")
Sorry for not replying here sooner. I saw this thread last night, after I’d had some friends over for dinner, and it didn’t seem like “half in the bag” was the best frame of mind in which to write a response. Anyway. The subject is currently under discussion in the mod loop. While we haven’t reached a consensus yet, I thought I should, at least, explain why I didn’t moderate the comment when it was initially reported. To start, I’m not really sold on the idea that the term is racist - at least, not the sort of racist that normally gets moderated around here. Certainly, it’s an artifact of a much more racist time, and makes reference to a theory of race that’s been thoroughly discredited, but the referent seems to be derived more from the idea, “People with this particular condition kind of look Asian,” and less, “People with this condition are stupid like Asian people.” Certainly, the former is very much not cool, but it feels (to my admittedly lily white ass) to be a different kind of animal from outright hate speech - more akin to “Oriental” or “Negro,” and less “chink” or “nigger.” The argument that it’s insulting to people with Down Syndrome is much stronger, but also not something that we have a lot of precedent for moderating on the SDMB. I’ve always been hesitant about moderating ableist speech, because it seems like a genuine slippery slope to me. If we ban “mongoloid,” why do we allow “retard?” If we ban “retard,” why do we allow “moron?” And so forth. It’s a can of worms I’m not hugely anxious to open, because it seems the only way to resolve it is by creating arbitrary distinctions between effectively identical terms, and that’s a hard way to moderate a message board. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/73 "2017-05-09T04:32:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Uh no. I mean, retarded is getting more and more outdated. (Once upon a time, “idiot” was the common term for people who were mentally disabled, just like retarded was. You didn’t know that?) I knew it, but the meaning of the word “idiot” has long shifted to “stupid, annoying, dumb person who does/says stupid things”. Unlike “retarded”, which while increasingly on The Banned List in the US, is still seen as a legitimate insult in places as well. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/74 "2017-05-09T06:15:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s a can of worms I’m not hugely anxious to open, because it seems the only way to resolve it is by creating arbitrary distinctions between effectively identical terms, and that’s a hard way to moderate a message board. All I’m hearing hear is “I don’t want to do it because it seems like work”, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/75 "2017-05-09T07:01:39Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I knew it, but the meaning of the word “idiot” has long shifted to “stupid, annoying, dumb person who does/says stupid things”. Unlike “retarded”, which while increasingly on The Banned List in the US, is still seen as a legitimate insult in places as well. True, but I think that “retard/retarded” is on the way to being just another insult like idiot. It’ll be awhile, though. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/76 "2017-05-09T07:11:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > True, but I think that “retard/retarded” is on the way to being just another insult like idiot. It’ll be awhile, though. I agree - and in some places it’s already there. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/77 "2017-05-09T10:24:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > All I’m hearing hear is “I don’t want to do it because it seems like work”, frankly. Then get your hearing aid checked. Miller is trying to express the long-held view of the Administration of this board that it’s a slippery slope trying to make up lists of words/phrases that are actionable no matter in which forum they appear in on the Board. Better to moderate on a case by case basis as they appear. The issue is still being discussed in the mod loop, BYW. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/78 "2017-05-09T10:42:49Z")
I like the case-by-case model. I think it’s possible for a sufficiently skilled orator or writer to make pretty much any word a term of abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/79 "2017-05-09T10:49:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I like the case-by-case model. I think it’s possible for a sufficiently skilled orator or writer to make pretty much any word a term of abuse. You _would_ think that, igneous crystal that you are. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037/80 "2017-05-09T10:57:39Z")
I do find the hand-wringing on if a slur is racist or ablest quite amazing. This isn’t a case of mutually exclusivity where either A is true or B is true, but not both A and B. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-calling-another-poster-a-mongoloid-is-a-ok-eh/786037.md?page=5)