You make it sound like this is unusual (and represensible?). It’s not. Every show I can think of that’s had a pregnant actress has worked it into the plotline somehow, it’s too hard to work about. The X-Files was exactly the same way. Gillian Anderson was pregnant throughout… was it Season 3? Body doubles were used whenever she had to run around and things. Scully was abducted because it was time for her to give birth, and she returned a few weeks later (which, and I KNOW I’m not the only one who’s noticed, is why her chest looks so big in One Breath). It turned out that that abduction started an arc that lasted until the end of the show six years later.
Umm Spike’s prominance as a lead character also happened during the sharp ratings demise of the show. Even the finale’s ratings were none too impressive. Given that Buffy wasn’t really helped all that much by Spike’s increased prominence and some seem to have argued the show was actually harmed by it:
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2003/05/13/spike_buffy/index_np.html
the ratings impact of Spike may not be a great as some would hope. Still it may be a decent ratings shot in the arm to already great show.
Given the last two seasons each series had, DB seemed to have done a much better job acting wise. It may be he just received better scripts and directing, but it still seemed clear to me where the better acting was happening. The acting for Wesley (who might have done the best job of any actor/actress of either series) and Gunn seemed to be alot more interesting as well, but it may be due to the same above factors. The job DB did in I will remember you in Season One of Angel alone seems much better then anything I have seen from JM lately. Of course, that’s IMHO. I am interested to see what JM can do with some decent scripts and direction- as it was clear from pre-Season 6 that he is a good actor.
They did pander to the fans. That’s how TV works. You attract viewers, and the more viewers you have, the more sponsors you get. THe WB simply was not going to renew Angel unless JM was on board, and the final decision wasn’t even made until the two days before it was announced. If it bothers you, think of it as pandering to the WB so they will pick it up.
Besides, Joss made it clear that CC was already gone when they picked up James.
From Thea Logica:
You make it sound like the two ideas are unrelated. Even pepperlandgirl admits that this is what they’re doing. And while I do think the writers deserve some benefit of the doubt and I will be watching to see how they do it, I would also be lying if I said that this kind of thinking didn’t have me concerned. I’ve seen too many good shows destroyed trying to give the public what it wants.
From elf6c:
While I do think that Spike could have benefited from a few scenes with some characters besides Buffy (Willow? Xander?) I hope that he gets better treatment than, say, Gunn. I get the impression that the writers don’t quite know what to do with Gunn.
I had heard from one source that CC had substance abuse problems, and that s3 was changed to accomodate her rehab. Any truth at all?
I think they will treat Spike well and develop his story. Joss must have had something in mind, because he always planned to bring Spike back one way or the other.
Interesting thoughts on Angel and ratings:
http://www.tvguide.com/tv/roush/mattask/030602a.asp
I thought his interaction with Xander at times was fun. At other times (andrew) it was forced. Still, going back to the time before the horrors of UPN Buffy there was alot more quality in his plot and character interactions (absent the silly schoolyard rivalry with Angel- ack!).
Gunn seemed a bit of a surplus once the triangle with Fred and Wes seemed to be resolved, but his epsiode with Electro_Girl and mysterious meeting with the black panther in the white room seemed to open new doors for his character.
While I can’t say the addition of Spike to “Angel” isn’t pandering, I do believe it may be very good for the character.
One thing that is obvious about “Angel” over “Buffy” is maturity. At the end of “Buffy” we saw Spike really becoming a different person, and the added maturity of “Angel” may really send the character in new directions.
Theoretically.
Well, the feeling I got from Gunn and the panther was: “We don’t quite know what to do here, so we’ll put in something mysterious and figure it out over the summer.”
Still, fingers crossed.
pepper, If you has said “I think that they’ll treat Spike badly and that his story will be crap.”, I probably would have keeled over dead. 
Actually, that was probably the most optimistic, pollyanna statement I have ever made regarding ME and their treatment of Spike.
I’m really setting myself up for pain.
Thea Logica:
Sure!
I don’t understand this comment:
How will moving to the W&H building save on sets? It looks much better-lit than the Hyperion, there’s a lab filled with fancy scientific equipment, a library filled with leather-bound volumes and oak bookcases, a limo, and twelve (as yet unseen) cars for Angel.
I’d guess it’ll cost a lot more, not less.
Um, there’s like actual daylight available in the W&H sets, and daylight shots are a lot cheaper to shoot. And really, the lab? Cheap props, baby, cheap props.
elf6c, I’ve heard those arguments before, and they don’t wash with me. Spike bears only the most superficial resemblence to the Fonz. Leather jacket and a bit of posturing. Woo, yeah, the characters are nearly identical. Never mind the Fonz was a completely one-dimensional womanizer, and Spike has become a fully-fleshed out character and has always been a one-woman vampire. Toward the end, I think Henry Winkler was even tired of the Fonz…
Also, Fonzie wasn’t the only, probably not even the main cause of the decline of “Happy Days.” There was the introduction on an extraneous and useless character (Chachi), the replacement of Arnold with Al, the season where it was basically the Suzi Quatro Video Show… Remember, folks, “Happy Days” is the show that gave us the phrase “Jump(ed) the shark”.
I think the major cause of the decline in ratings for BtVS
over the past couple of seasons had more to do with Marti Noxon’s sabotage of the show than with making Spike a more prominent character, and really, up until the last third of the final season, he didn’t get all that much screen time. Early on in both of the past two seasons, he got, what, a minute or two per episode (with the exception of “Beneath You”, which was a great episode)? Then gradually more as the season wore on.
When Joss left Noxon holding the reins, she brought some really negative storylines to the show. in what until then had been a very positive, upbeat show. Buffy came back depressed, and quickly became a thoroughly dislikeable character, then there was the Magick as Crack storyline, Xander becoming an inconsistent, self-righteous hypocrite, and then, bring on Spuffy, and Buffy’s abuse of Spike. Oh, yeah and then the AR. Yeesh.
Basically, the show quit being fun to watch.
Then, S7 got off to a pretty good start, then it seemed that ME forgot they even had a show on UPN. Around mid-season, I was ready to tune out, sending an e-mail to pepperlandgirl to let me know when they decided to start telling story again.
Mutant Enemy dropped the ball with regards to BtVS. I’m hoping that Joss and Co. won’t make the same mistakes with Angel next season. I think they’ve learned their lesson, and, hey, ME only has one show on the air right now…
I’d be surprised if it’s real daylight, as that drastically limits your shooting time, and introduces a whole new mess of continuity head-aches. The whole idea of shooting on a soundstage is getting total control over the enviroment. Using natural lighting defeats that. And, anyway, if it was a cost thing, the most expensive part is building the set. They already had the hotel, so building a whole new set for Wolfram and Heart doesn’t make any sense from an economic perspective.
I hope the changed premise doesn’t mean we’ll never see the Hyperion again. It was a beautiful set, and I love the idea of having a hotel as a base of operations.
Who-all was living there during Seasons 3 and 4? Angel, Fred, Gunn, Cordelia (4) and Connor? Wesley’s the only one who always had a separate apartment, right?
Actually, ** Miller**, the W&H set already existed prior to the move- the FG has visited the building more than once. And as for the use of daylight…
Remember that the main character is still a creature who can only go outside at night. But now with the “treated glass” more of the action can take place during the daytime, but yes there must of necessity be nighttime action as well. I can imagine we will see the days fading into night, rather than most of the action taking place at night. Also, I think there are going to be fewer “set piece” episodes- a lot of the action will most likely take place in the pre-existing sets that are part of the “W&H” building and there will be fewer sets being created for single episodes or brief episode arcs.
It sounded to me like CC left to deal with her new baby.
Viva Spike!
Thea Logica:
That’s just your assumption, though. There’s nothing inherent in the new premise that means that will be the case.
Wasn’t the old W&H set a lot different then the new one shown at the end of the season?
Salon’s argument does seem to place too much blame at the character of Spike and not nearly enough at the hands of the piss-poor writing, direction and lack of attention from Joss. He basically abandoned both shows for his new projects- the cartoon, Ripper, and most notably- Firefly. Angel thrived and Buffy withered.
Was it solely due to the character of Spike? No. Unlike the Horrid Kennedy or the idiotic SITs, Spike had been on the show for a while quite successfully. It was the poor writing and plot decisions made regarding the character which ruined the show, IMHO. JM remained a solid actor, but couldn’t rise above the script problems and the fundamental mistakes made during UPN Buffy. Similar problems were evident in the characters of Giles and Xander as well, but because the show converted from an ensemble show to a Willow/Buffy/Spike based show any problems with the writing for those characters had a disparate impact on the show.
While I do agree that the Spike story lines helped ruin the show, it is not because the show focused on Spike more, but rather because when they did the plot, writing and direction were sub par. All too often fans were left rolling their eyes at the screen, as the writers seemed to take perverse pride in degrading Buffy and Spike in new sadly mundane ways. The pure joy and sly humor of those charcters was replaced with pompous self-involvement and bafflingly bad decisions not consistent with the prior seasons.
Not satisfied with ruining Buffy and Spike, the writers decided that the best thing to happen to the show in a couple of seasons- Willow and Tara, needed to be destroyed. Having already made Willow suffer through the logic and canon bending “magic as crack” idiocy, they then dispose of Tara with a misplaced gunshot. Not since Kendra suffered her throw away death had such a poor death for a good character been used.
While ruining Spike and Buffy, and misusing Willow was a start, to truly cement the damage the “wheel of Xander” was used to determine which Xander would show up each week. Anya was reduced to a one-note character who got a cheap line every other show. The cherry on top was ruining Giles this season.
Who ruined BVTS? In the end it was Joss. He picked the writers and directors for the last two seasons. He claimed to see all the scripts and to have helped with the plot lines. In the interviews surrounding the finale he often claimed that he planned for BVTS to end this year and was always involved in crafting the plots. He chose to spend more time on his failed side projects (at least Firefly was good, if doomed from the start). He certainly had alot more time for season 7, yet it sucked just as hard as 6. ME claimed they heard the fans and would adjust BVTS from the “life as the big bad” disaster. And what did we get? A mish-mash of a few good episodes surrounded by a vast wasteland of crap. Either Joss, or his hand picked people, had direct control over all of it. He has got way too little blame for the destruction of the franchise.
Sure Spike was the tool which for the most part was used to ruin Buffy, but it is the hands behind the tool which deserves the blame. Oh, that and Kennedy. :mad:
Well, to be fair, Tara was earmarked to die from the beginning. Though I agree with the rest of your points.
Except the last sentence. Spike was the only good thing going for Buffy, especially S7. I’d say the combined efforts of Giles, Xander, the SiTs, Wood, Kennedy, Faith, and Buffy herself far, far, far outweighed any harm Spike miht have done. At least his story was compelling and by the end of the series he wasn’t Cookie Dough–IOW, someone got to grow up at least.
Just out of curiosity, Pepperlandgirl, can you find a single thing about Spike or James Marsters that’s negative? Or at least somewhat annoying?