So Cops Have These Things Now...

[Bricker]

@Sailboat

I wonder if the Fourth Amendment applies (protection from “unreasonable” search).

Excellent question.

@Cluricaun

Sure it does, just like the cops at the next DUI roadblock that you see where they have a DA or a judge present so that anyone who refuses to submit to a breathalyzer can have a search warrant issued on the spot so that they can forcibly have blood drawn.

The Fourth Amendment is dead.

Wrong answer to the excellent question.

@jz78817

how would it? your license plate is on the back (and sometimes the front too) of your car. the entire world can see it. it’s no different than if I was stopped at a red light with a cop behind me, and he manually looked up my tag #.

Correct.

@Doctor_Who

Doubtful, but not because the Fourth is dead. But, because, this is not likely to be a search, and thus the Fourth doesn’t apply. You expose your license plate to the public when you drive around. There’s no inconvenience to you when they check your vehicle’s registration (and then do a warrant search on the registered owner). In fact, you probably won’t even know it happened unless they stop you.

I didn’t search case law, but I would be surprised if this qualifies as a search.

Correct.

The Fourth Amendment limits “unreasonable” searches and seizures. We don’t have to reach the question of reasonableness because this isn’t a search.

[mittu]

Cool technology, sounds like a mobile version of the Automatic Number Plate Recognition system they use in the UK. There will probably be a lot of cases where the police get the wrong person (e.g. the owner isn’t in the car at the time) but it might put the shits up the owner enough to turn him/herself in.

[Rafe_Hollister]

While we’re on the subject of license plates: The states around here all have a double helix pattern faintly visible on the plates, running top-to-bottom. I wonder what the purpose of that is.

Being a biologist in Missouri, I first thought it was a nod to the DNA research at Washington University in St. Louis. Then I noticed it on Oklahoma’s plates, and it’s on others, too.

[Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley]

@Cluricaun

Sure it does, just like the cops at the next DUI roadblock that you see where they have a DA or a judge present so that anyone who refuses to submit to a breathalyzer can have a search warrant issued on the spot so that they can forcibly have blood drawn.

The Fourth Amendment is dead.

How does that violate the fourth amendment? Are you saying the judges are issuing these warrants in the absence of probable cause? Cite?

[Musicat]

@Bricker

The Fourth Amendment limits “unreasonable” searches and seizures. We don’t have to reach the question of reasonableness because this isn’t a search.

I have no argument with you on the legal angle.

But doesn’t it seem just a little Big Brother-ish & overly intrusive? Or is that just because we’re used to being left alone just a little too much?

[MPB_in_Salt_Lake]

@Musicat

But doesn’t it seem just a little Big Brother-ish & overly intrusive?

Yes

[Earthworm_Jim]

@Bricker

The Fourth Amendment limits “unreasonable” searches and seizures. We don’t have to reach the question of reasonableness because this isn’t a search.

Sure it is. It’s a search of the vast databases of information for information about a vehicle just because the vehicle happens to be in the line of sight of a camera. It’s unreasonable because the agent of the government has no cause to be searching their databases for information about the vehicle.

I know, that’s not the current interpretation of the fourth amendment, but it’s much more in line with the original intent.

The fourth amendment is dead. Long live the fourth amendment.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@Musicat

But doesn’t it seem just a little Big Brother-ish & overly intrusive? Or is that just because we’re used to being left alone just a little too much?

It’s just a new tool that does exactly the same job that has been done manually for years.

Now if it read the license plate and checked the plate owner against the database your supermarket keeps, which remembers every product purchased with your “rewards card” so it could tell the cop when the last time you bought toilet paper was, or whatever…that would be overly intrusive.

I’m healthily wary of The State, but searching for criminals isn’t a fucking game the cops play when the donut shops aren’t open–the purpose of this technology is to help them catch Bad Guys, as defined by state and federal-level legislation–legislation ostensibly enacted as part of a representative government. In short, it helps cops catch guys whom we have decided needed catching. Why the paranoia?

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley

According to the OP, these are not for traffic citations, but for catching people with warrants. Since most states don’t issue warrants for traffic citations, we are talking about criminal offenses here, up to and including murder.

The one that I’m in does.

And, of course, if the warrant is for an egregious crime, they can serve it directly on the guy at his home any time they want. That they wait for the opportunistic capture demonstrates its lack of importance. What are they gonna do, wait for the guy to pass one of these cars and then and only then serve a 1st degree murder warrant on him? No, they’re going to hunt the guy down on the spot.

It’s a traffic device on a traffic cop’s car. It’s a fundraiser, a way to collect that $150 fine that need not have been issued to begin with.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

It’s a traffic device on a traffic cop’s car. It’s a fundraiser, a way to collect that $150 fine that need not have been issued to begin with.

Even if this IS its sole purpose–who’s fault is it that the fine was incurred? Can you even get a parking ticket on accident? This argument sounds like, “No fair, mom! If you hadn’t come home early you wouldn’t have caught me banging my girlfriend on the sofa after school!”

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

@Oakminster

And, from a safety perspective, this technology can give the officer a heads up on whether the car he just pulled over for speeding might be driven by someone with warrants for felony offenses…allowing him to call for backup on a felony takedown rather than becoming a lead story on the local news for dying in the line of duty.

Right. Because the first thing a police officer does when he pulls someone over isn’t to call the plates in. They just sit there for 5-10 minutes before coming to your window so they can catch the rest of the story playing on NPR or the end of Justin Bieber’s new song.

Oh, and :rolleyes:. And one more for the last post, I forgot them: :rolleyes: .

[Inigo_Montoya]

So…baby-rapin, kitten stompin enemies of society should be given every opportunity to continue to shop for babies & kittens so long as they don’t draw attention to themselves on the road? They only need to get arrested when a cop sees them perpetrating a traffic offense and pulls them over and checks their plates while Mr. Criminal waits patiently, not suspecting for a moment he’s in trouble and thinking he’s just going to get a warning?

C’mon Airman, you know time isn’t a cops ally in that situation. :rolleyes: and :dubious: to you.

[Angel_of_Doubt]

@Rafe_Hollister

While we’re on the subject of license plates: The states around here all have a double helix pattern faintly visible on the plates, running top-to-bottom. I wonder what the purpose of that is.

Being a biologist in Missouri, I first thought it was a nod to the DNA research at Washington University in St. Louis. Then I noticed it on Oklahoma’s plates, and it’s on others, too.

That’s exactly what I thought too, only in Tennessee. “Hmm, new vanity plate? Biologist?”

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Inigo_Montoya

Even if this IS its sole purpose–who’s fault is it that the fine was incurred? Can you even get a parking ticket on accident? This argument sounds like, “No fair, mom! If you hadn’t come home early you wouldn’t have caught me banging my girlfriend on the sofa after school!”

If you’re not doing anything wrong, then you don’t mind if we install this camera in your home, would you?

[Kozmik]

@jz78817

how would it? your license plate is on the back (and sometimes the front too) of your car. the entire world can see it. it’s no different than if I was stopped at a red light with a cop behind me, and he manually looked up my tag #.

You must not live in a state that recieves a lot of snow.

[Bricker]

@Earthworm_Jim

Sure it is. It’s a search of the vast databases of information for information about a vehicle just because the vehicle happens to be in the line of sight of a camera. It’s unreasonable because the agent of the government has no cause to be searching their databases for information about the vehicle.

I know, that’s not the current interpretation of the fourth amendment, but it’s much more in line with the original intent.

The fourth amendment is dead. Long live the fourth amendment.

As you acknowledge, the Fourth Amendment has never been held to prevent the government from searching its own property – namely, its own database, for any reason or no reason at all.

[Musicat]

@Inigo_Montoya

@Musicat

But doesn’t it seem just a little Big Brother-ish & overly intrusive? Or is that just because we’re used to being left alone just a little too much?

It’s just a new tool that does exactly the same job that has been done manually for years.

But doesn’t it seem just a little Big Brother-ish & overly intrusive? Or is that just because we’re used to being left alone just a little too much?

[armedmonkey]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

And, of course, if the warrant is for an egregious crime, they can serve it directly on the guy at his home any time they want.

Two things:

1.) Criminals are probably the segment of society least likely to have a permanent address.

2.) This system, I’m sure, has to make it MUCH easier to find a stolen vehicle - something the cops can’t do unless they see the actual vehicle.

[Duke]

@Superhal

Shower caps aren’t waterproof, eh? Especially if the water spray angle is not straight down?

I would say saran wrap and a lot of duct tape.

I’d think the problem with shower caps would be more that the water pressure in a car wash is going to be a lot stronger than in your average shower. You’d hear all about it if shower caps were strong enough to stay on someone’s head in a car wash, because…

…wait for it…
…wait for it…
…they’d be making HEADLINES!!!

[2gigch1]

There are many ways to avoid the ‘trouble’ government can give you. You can

• Live in an area where government intrusion is less normal
• Elect people who do not impose intrusive legislation on their constituants
• Don’t break the law
• Don’t drive

One evening a few years ago I was driving my old Volvo that could not pass a Maryland emissions test to save my life, and I knew I was in violation. A Maryland State Trooper ran my tag on the fly and pulled me over for it, issuing a written warning that I needed to have the vehicle inspected the next day (which I had in fact intended to do.) Not two miles further down the road a Frederick County Sheriff lit me up, I pulled over, and as he walked up to my vehicle I laughed and showed him the trooper’s warning in my hand. He laughed too, reminded me to get it done, and went on his way without further discussion.

I deserved it.

I have no problem with a system that automaticly checks state issued plates (which are not a right to own) to see if the owner is in violation of something. I think it is a better use of an officer’s time targeting people who already have issues instead of messing with me when I am playing by the rules.

Sorry 'bout that ticket you haven’t paid. Try paying it.