So Cops Have These Things Now...

[carnivorousplant]

@Rhythmdvl

Yeah, but we’ll have jetpacks!

Someone’s been reading Bug.

[kanicbird]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

I bet they pay for themselves in less than a year, too. :rolleyes:

With this technology it might get cops to focus their efforts off harassing the traveling public and more to their original intent to catch known criminals and recovery of stolen property.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Loach

I’m sure that there are various computer programs across the country and each state has their own rules. I can only speak of the system we use and the NJ Attorney General guidelines for its use. We only have it on one car.

As I drove around with it on it would be just one of the programs running on my computer. Absolutely no information would show for any vehicles unless there was an alert on the plate. Nothing at all. If there was a warrant or a stolen vehicle I would get an audio warning “high alert”. If it was something like an expired registration or suspension it would say “medium alert”. It still does not give any information. It just shows a picture of the plate so you can confirm that it read it right. As per the AG it is not enough for probable cause to pull over the vehicle. At that point I would look up the plate the old way directly through DMV and NCIC. If the hit is valid then I would pull over the vehicle or whatever the situation calls for. On our system it is impossible to look up priors or anything else. Also it is not a live system. If it talked to DMV directly it would be way too slow. So it downloads a “hot list” of plates that have violations. That list is kept in the hard drive until updated. So sometimes it would give a bad hit. If someone took care of their warrant or restored their license since the last download it wouldn’t show up. So it just doesn’t sense to pull anyone over before checking anyway. Oh and our system didn’t do out of state plates. Its a decent tool but not perfect.

The rest of your question is something I know only from the outside. The system does keep a record of plates. Its not exactly easy to get information from that database unless you are looking for a specific plate. It doesn’t track people like Big Brother. Only a few people on the department have access to that part of the system. As an educated guess I would say only one actually knows how to do it. According to the AG guidelines access to the information can only be done for legitimate law enforcement reasons. All inquiries are logged by the system and its monitored by the state. It would be worth someone’s job to access the information improperly.

And our system could be taken through the car wash.

Sweet. Good answer. Don’t tase me, bro!

[Loach]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

So here’s a simple solution to what I perceive to be a problem: ALL ticket money goes to the state, to be distributed equitably throughout the state. If it’s about safety nobody should have a problem with that, right? The police will cost everybody money whether or not they ever write a ticket, so the state distributes the ticket money to offset that cost while simultaneously destroying the incentive to write tickets for the sake of raising funds.

I can not say anything about other states because I have no knowledge of how things are done there. I do know that the percentage of fines that go to the state here is over 90%. Where I work there has never been pressure to write tickets for revenue purposes. Different bosses have different priorities and some believe traffic enforcement is extremely important, others not so much.

[Clothahump]

@Sailboat

I wonder if the Fourth Amendment applies (protection from “unreasonable” search).

IANAL, but even I know the answer to this. There is no unreasonable search. The license plate is in open view.

[Clothahump]

@Airman_Doors_USAF

Right. Because the first thing a police officer does when he pulls someone over isn’t to call the plates in. They just sit there for 5-10 minutes before coming to your window so they can catch the rest of the story playing on NPR or the end of Justin Bieber’s new song.

Oh, and :rolleyes:. And one more for the last post, I forgot them: :rolleyes: .

Roll 'em all you want, you’re still wrong. The very first thing an officer does on a traffic stop is call the plate in, or punch it into the computer. At least that way, there is some record if the driver then shoots the officer and boogies off.

Also, traffic tickets are not issued as revenue sources. You really need to learn this. They are a citation into court - the driver has broken the law in some manner and needs to answer for it. The simplest way to avoid getting a ticket is to not break the traffic laws. There it is.

[Audrey_Levins]

Check out the links Airman posted on the prior page, Clothahump. Traffic tickets are indeed issued as revenue sources; we have a small town here in the middle of San Antonio with its own police force with an artificially low speed limit on their section of Broadway Street specifically to pay for itself. The number of traffic tickets issued by the Alamo Heights PD (which by the way calls San Antonio PD for any real crimes committed within Alamo Heights) is legendary. They make money off traffic tickets.

And there are ticket traps like this all over the country. It’s not exactly news.

[VinylTurnip]

@aceplace57

If your great grandson drops a candy wrapper on the ground in 2111 camera sensors will detect the criminal infraction. Robots will emerge from niches in the walls to hand him a ticket and pick up the litter.

And one day, one of those JaniDroids will become sentient and refuse to hand out chickenshit tickets, forcing it to go on the lam in outer space in a hacky sci-fi 360°-D holofilm directed by Michael BayBot.

Ticket cost: 75,999 New Freedom Credits (1 adult, matinée pricing)

[Boyo_Jim]

Nobody puts out arrest warrants on cars. Nobody puts out arrest warrants on licence plates. They put them out on people. So obviously the database is using the plate number to look up who the vehicle is registered to.

Does the fact that a car owned by a wanted person is seen on the road give the police the right to stop it and determine the identity of the driver?

If the police pull up next to the car and can see that the driver is not the wanted person, do they have the right to stop the car anyway and question the driver about where the owner might be?

It’s not like a crime has just been committed and witnesses say the criminal got away in a car fitting that description.

[Loach]

@Boyo_Jim

Nobody puts out arrest warrants on cars. Nobody puts out arrest warrants on licence plates. They put them out on people. So obviously the database is using the plate number to look up who the vehicle is registered to.

Does the fact that a car owned by a wanted person is seen on the road give the police the right to stop it and determine the identity of the driver?

If the police pull up next to the car and can see that the driver is not the wanted person, do they have the right to stop the car anyway and question the driver about where the owner might be?

It’s not like a crime has just been committed and witnesses say the criminal got away in a car fitting that description.

No

[Boyo_Jim]

@Loach

No

Are you saying the only way the police can stop a car identified by this system is if they drive up beside it and visually identify the driver (or perhaps a passenger) as the person named in the warrant?

[Uber_the_Goober]

@Clothahump

Roll 'em all you want, you’re still wrong. The very first thing an officer does on a traffic stop is call the plate in, or punch it into the computer. At least that way, there is some record if the driver then shoots the officer and boogies off.

Also, traffic tickets are not issued as revenue sources. You really need to learn this. They are a citation into court - the driver has broken the law in some manner and needs to answer for it. The simplest way to avoid getting a ticket is to not break the traffic laws. There it is.

Wow…

First, you completely got whooshed on the intention of the post you quoted. And it’s pretty awesome how silly it makes you look.

Secondly, all your righteous indignation and smug “correctness” just makes you look like an UberDouche. Tickets are certainly written as part of an overall revenue stream in many many towns and cities across the country. If you’ve never realized this, well that’s fine. But don’t go vehemently decrying anyone who suggests it.

There’s plenty of legitimate tickets written everyday. Law broken, ticket written, fine paid. But there’s also plenty of tickets written that have little to nothing to do with any actual public safety concerns. For example, a 20MPH speed zone that only lasts 1/4mile with 35MPH zones before and after it, on a blank stretch of highway between towns. You telling me you’ve NEVER seen that?

Oh well. Ignorance fights back yet again.

[FoieGrasIsEvil]

@Boyo_Jim

Are you saying the only way the police can stop a car identified by this system is if they drive up beside it and visually identify the driver (or perhaps a passenger) as the person named in the warrant?

Do all warrants come with a description/picture of the arrestee? Or is that just for felony warrants? Cuz you can get a warrant issued for your arrest for something as minor as an unpaid traffic ticket. And without a description or image of the person in question they’d pretty much have to pull the car over to find out what’s going on, right?

[Boyo_Jim]

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Do all warrants come with a description/picture of the arrestee? Or is that just for felony warrants? Cuz you can get a warrant issued for your arrest for something as minor as an unpaid traffic ticket. And without a description or image of the person in question they’d pretty much have to pull the car over to find out what’s going on, right?

I dunno, I asking questions, not handing out answers.

One thing, though, is that if the car is tied to someone with a warrant, there is almost certainly a photo in the DMV records. How many people own cars who don’t have drivers licenses?

And it seems the system is already linking the DMV database to the data on arrest warrants in order to match names, so how hard would it be to grab the picture as another chunk of the linked data?

[Loach]

@Boyo_Jim

Are you saying the only way the police can stop a car identified by this system is if they drive up beside it and visually identify the driver (or perhaps a passenger) as the person named in the warrant?

They have to make a reasonable attempt to identify. No court expects you to get into a dangerous situation on the road just to get a better look. It is not necessary to get a 100% identification prior to stopping but there should be at least a general match.

@FoieGrasIsEvil

Do all warrants come with a description/picture of the arrestee? Or is that just for felony warrants? Cuz you can get a warrant issued for your arrest for something as minor as an unpaid traffic ticket. And without a description or image of the person in question they’d pretty much have to pull the car over to find out what’s going on, right?

Everything will at least have a general description. Sometimes we get a picture too. If its in DMV we can get a picture in a short amount of time, but usually after a stop to verify.

[Idle_Thoughts]

@echo6160

Wow…

First, you completely got whooshed on the intention of the post you quoted. And it’s pretty awesome how silly it makes you look.

Secondly, all your righteous indignation and smug “correctness” just makes you look like an UberDouche. Tickets are certainly written as part of an overall revenue stream in many many towns and cities across the country. If you’ve never realized this, well that’s fine. But don’t go vehemently decrying anyone who suggests it.

There’s plenty of legitimate tickets written everyday. Law broken, ticket written, fine paid. But there’s also plenty of tickets written that have little to nothing to do with any actual public safety concerns. For example, a 20MPH speed zone that only lasts 1/4mile with 35MPH zones before and after it, on a blank stretch of highway between towns. You telling me you’ve NEVER seen that?

Oh well. Ignorance fights back yet again.

Dial back the anger, echo6160. This post is out of line for MPSIMS. Don’t call others names or use insults again.

No warning issued.

Idle Thoughts

[Little_Nemo]

Getting in late but the thread’s been revived so why not?

While I think that our current court system isn’t adequately upholding the principles of the Fourth and Fifth Amendments, I can’t see any problem here. I don’t see how looking at a car’s license on public display could qualify as an unreasonable search, even if it’s being done automatically by computer.

@lawbuff

DA’s can NOT issue search warrants, only a Judge/Magistrate can do that. While it is constitutionally permissable to have a person other than a Judge issue an arrest warrant for Municiapal violations, ONLY a JUDGE can sign a SW, period.

True. I’ve never been a judge but I’ve signed and issued dozens of arrest warrants. But never a search warrant.

[Uber_the_Goober]

nm

[Taomist]

The words out of my mouth when reading the op was ‘Cool!’. I think it’s a good idea.
For the record, I also like the idea of more cameras covering public areas.
And OFF the record, I’m one of those folks who would probably get stopped on an outstanding warrant, so anyone bitching about invasion of privacy can waste their time somewhere else.
It’s a good idea.

[Loach]

@Taomist

The words out of my mouth when reading the op was ‘Cool!’. I think it’s a good idea.
For the record, I also like the idea of more cameras covering public areas.
And OFF the record, I’m one of those folks who would probably get stopped on an outstanding warrant, so anyone bitching about invasion of privacy can waste their time somewhere else.
It’s a good idea.

Hmmm tell me more about this warrant…