# So, did expanding the CFB playoffs just get more likely? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 2, 2018, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752 "2018-01-02T14:56:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/41 "2018-01-09T00:49:17Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Even an 8-team system necessarily means that winning your conference isn’t important (in my opinion, the playoffs should only be between conference champions or highly-ranked independents; you don’t win your conference, too bad–do better next year). That’s how it is in the NFL after all. It’s not that unusual for a team to make it to the playoffs with a worse record (even a losing one) than other teams who didn’t make it in, because they’re in a weak conference. It works there, it can work in CFB. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/42 "2018-01-09T01:58:49Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s how it is in the NFL after all. It’s not that unusual for a team to make it to the playoffs with a worse record (even a losing one) than other teams who didn’t make it in, because they’re in a weak conference. It works there, it can work in CFB. It doesn’t always work in the NFL. Take the 2007 and 2011 New York Giants and New England Patriots. The Giants won the Super Bowl both those years against the Patriots. I don’t think that they were actually better than the Patriots in either one of those years. The NFL does a good job of selecting a league champion, but not at determining which team is the best team. In division I of NCAA football they do a much better job of determining which team is the best team, not just which team wins the championship. Expanding the playoff field to eight teams will just make it more likely that an inferior team will get lucky and beat a better team. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/43 "2018-01-09T02:43:14Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s how it is in the NFL after all. It’s not that unusual for a team to make it to the playoffs with a worse record (even a losing one) than other teams who didn’t make it in, because they’re in a weak conference. It works there, it can work in CFB. I’m sorry, but “That’s how it is in the NFL” doesn’t work for me. I don’t like NFL football nearly as much as college ball. The NFL is a professional league. Their whole reason for existence is to make money. Their schedules and playoffs (not to mention even their uniforms and merchandising) are structured to maximize income. I find the NFL is too scripted, too polished. Not that I like sloppy play, but the uncertainty that college-aged kids bring to the game is part of its charm, for me. It’s also the reason that a college team’s entire season should be taken into consideration in determining who had the best season, not just how they played the last three or four games. I understand that palyoffs generate interest, drama, and greater advertising revenues. Which means, there is no stopping it. I realize my opinion doesn’t amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world, but I would find it a bit refreshing if the NCAA ignored the money and supported the schools, athletic conferences, and most importantly, the student athletes and enacted some rules to prevent ESPN from deciding how a school’s football season is structured. It’s not like that if they didn’t have a College Football Playoff that people would stop watching College Football. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/44 "2018-01-09T03:10:42Z")
> [@jkirkman](#): > > Only TV ratings matter. I hope they take a big hit tonight. I was flipping through the channels and stumbled across the SEC Championship Game: Redux, and just kept on surfin’. Fuck this illegitimate championship. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/45 "2018-01-09T05:22:54Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I hope they take a big hit tonight. I was flipping through the channels and stumbled across the SEC Championship Game: Redux, and just kept on surfin’. > > Fuck this illegitimate championship. Agreed. Georgia is the SEC Champ, but Alabama is the National Champ…despite having been subordinate to Georgia in the SEC…😕 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/46 "2018-01-09T05:38:05Z")
Well, in fairness, Alabama wasn’t “subordinate” to Georgia in the SEC, except in that they didn’t win the conference. They didn’t play Georgia, nor did they compete against Georgia by being in the same division. So we have the usual won/loss carousel of A beats B, who beat C, who beat A. Heck of a game, btw. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/47 "2018-01-09T12:12:37Z")
SEC Champion = National Champion. #feelthebutthurt ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/48 "2018-01-09T12:41:52Z")
Mercer. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/49 "2018-01-09T12:50:05Z")
Clemson. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/50 "2018-01-09T13:18:43Z")
Auburn 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/51 "2018-01-09T15:18:41Z")
My solution: Shift the season so the conference championship games are three weeks before New Year’s Day. This allows for 2 weeks (week before Xmas to NYE) of Who Cares Bowls. In this day of the internet a fan can plan their bowl trip in 5 minutes. Playoff teams P5 Champions at-large: Highest ranked non-P5 champion at-large: Two highest ranked non-championship teams (I would prefer that a conference cannot have 3 teams but not a deal breaker) First Round New Year’s Day Rose Bowl: Pac12 vs Big10 Fiesta or Cotton Bowl: Big12 v furthest west at-large team Sugar Bowl: SEC v central at-large team Orange Bowl: ACC v furthest east at-large team (One could argue that if every conference is limited to two teams that at-large teams may be shuffled to avoid conference playing each other. Again not a deal breaker) Second Round the Saturday after Winter Break for most schools 3 year cycle Year 1: Rose winner v Fiesta/Cotton winner; Sugar winner v Orange winner Year 2: Rose winner v Sugar winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Orange winner Year 3: Rose winner v Orange winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Sugar winner Championship one week later (Saturday) on a neutral site (like the Super Bowl) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/52 "2018-01-09T16:30:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My solution: > Shift the season so the conference championship games are three weeks before New Year’s Day. This allows for 2 weeks (week before Xmas to NYE) of Who Cares Bowls. In this day of the internet a fan can plan their bowl trip in 5 minutes. > > Playoff teams > P5 Champions > at-large: Highest ranked non-P5 champion > at-large: Two highest ranked non-championship teams (I would prefer that a conference cannot have 3 teams but not a deal breaker) > > First Round New Year’s Day > Rose Bowl: Pac12 vs Big10 > Fiesta or Cotton Bowl: Big12 v furthest west at-large team > Sugar Bowl: SEC v central at-large team > Orange Bowl: ACC v furthest east at-large team > (One could argue that if every conference is limited to two teams that at-large teams may be shuffled to avoid conference playing each other. Again not a deal breaker) > > Second Round the Saturday after Winter Break for most schools > 3 year cycle > Year 1: Rose winner v Fiesta/Cotton winner; Sugar winner v Orange winner > Year 2: Rose winner v Sugar winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Orange winner > Year 3: Rose winner v Orange winner; Fiesta/Cotton winner v Sugar winner > > Championship one week later (Saturday) on a neutral site (like the Super Bowl) Two problems that I can see: One - you shouldn’t have the possibility of something like 1 vs 2 in the first round, or having 1-2 as one semi-final and, say, 3-7 in the other, especially if the final is one week after the semi-final. You run the risk of the weaker team being in a blowout where the stronger teams are in a slugfest, so the weaker team has an advantage. This is a known “thing”; at one point, the NCAA actually responded to calls to re-seed the final four in basketball with the excuse that you wouldn’t get any more “Cinderella champions.” At the very least, the top four seeds have to be in separate games. Two - unless the semi-finals are on NFL conference championship weekend (which is Saturday 1/17 at the earliest) or later, you’re going to have these playoffs clash with the NFL playoffs. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/53 "2018-01-09T16:32:58Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > SEC Champion = National Champion. > > #feelthebutthurt Except that’s wrong. The SEC champ is Georgia. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/54 "2018-01-09T16:35:51Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Except that’s wrong. The SEC champ is Georgia. :rolleyes: On paper, yes. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/55 "2018-01-09T16:40:02Z")
It’s all really on paper. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/56 "2018-01-09T17:09:00Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > One - you shouldn’t have the possibility of something like 1 vs 2 in the first round, or having 1-2 as one semi-final and, say, 3-7 in the other, especially if the final is one week after the semi-final. You run the risk of the weaker team being in a blowout where the stronger teams are in a slugfest, so the weaker team has an advantage. It would be a problem if the ranking weren’t so biased and subjective. I think that any 8 team seeding of top NCAA football teams using polls and rankings is only slightly better than random. But we certainly can use the 4 bowls to do 1-8, 2-7, etc. provided you can deal with OhMyGarshWhatAboutTradition faction. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/57 "2018-01-09T17:30:40Z")
That faction got bought out already, when the BCS system started. Please note that this year the Big 10 and Pac 12 champs met in the Cotton Bowl. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/58 "2018-01-10T16:35:30Z")
For what it is worth, here is the system I would implement: Eight teams are selected by the NCAA to go to the Div I FBS playoffs. These shall consist of the following teams: The five champions of the Power-5 conferences (ACC, Big-12(10), BiG(-14), Pac-12, SEC). The top-ranked “Group of Five” conferences champion. The two top-ranked non-champion schools (from any conference). Rankings shall be by the NCAA selection committee, based upon selection criteria similar to those used to set the Div-I FCS, Div-II and Div-III playoffs. The first round of the playoffs shall be held around Christmas. Four bowls from a pool of six or eight will rotate hosting the quarter-finals. Schools are seeded according to ranking. The second round of the playoffs shall be held around New Year’s Day. Two bowls from a pool of four will rotate hosting the semi-finals. Schools are NOT re-seeded (static brackets). The Final will be held ten days after the semi-finals. Teams who are quarter-final losers are allowed to participate in New Year’s Day bowls at their discretion. Yeah, it’s not perfect, but at least it gets the five conference champs an automatic spot, doesn’t leave the top Group of Five school hanging, and allows for some wild cards, because conference championships are determined by playoff game these days, instead of being based upon a round-robin schedule over the season, like any sane system would use (and did, up until not that long ago!). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/59 "2018-01-10T18:02:54Z")
Do away with the playoffs entirely. The college football champion is the one holding the [College Football Belt](http://collegefootballbelt.com/index.htm). The Belt is a championship as it is in boxing: you win the title by beating the current holder, and you hold your title until defeated. They haven’t updated the site for the 2017-2018 season; Clemson had the Belt at the beginning of 2017, having won it from Alabama in January. Clemson lost to Syracuse on October 13, so the Belt passed to them. They lost to the Miami Hurricanes the following week. Miami held the Belt until they lost to Pitt on November 24. So, by Belt standards, the Pittsburgh Panthers are the current champions. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2018, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752/60 "2018-01-10T18:07:30Z")
If you took the 10 conference champions plus 2 wildcards you’d have almost the same setup as the NFL with the top 4 ranked teams getting a bye week. Unfortunately some first round games would be rather lopsided affairs. I think there’s resistance to enshrining the Power 5 as permanent members of the UN Security Council as evidenced this year by UCF. Not sure what if anything can be done about that other than putting all the conferences on a level playing field. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-expanding-the-cfb-playoffs-just-get-more-likely/805752.md?page=4)