# So did I do wrong here? Moral dilema and outraged (former) friend. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828 "2009-02-14T15:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/21 "2009-02-14T18:23:01Z")
No, I didn’t want to pit anyone. I thought maybe I wasn’t seeing something that made her response understandable. I know it was unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/22 "2009-02-14T18:39:16Z")
Your (ex)friend was completely over the line. Would she have pitched the same fit if you’d brought over a straight friend who had the sniffles? I think you’re better off without her in your life. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/23 "2009-02-14T19:34:56Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > I fear my friend is no longer a friend. If I were you, I wouldn’t **fear** that she is no longer a friend, but rather be glad of it. What a twat. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/24 "2009-02-14T19:40:53Z")
Unless “fondue party” is a euphemism for “swingers party” then you are innocent of wrongdoing. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/25 "2009-02-14T19:44:33Z")
My response would be laughter and a “you can’t seriously be that ignorant” attitude. If she’s not your friend after this, you haven’t lost much of a friend. It would also be interesting to see how the others involved react to her ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/26 "2009-02-14T19:50:09Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Two weeks ago a friend of mine had a fondue party. She provided dippers and hot oil, and the guests were invited to bring other fondues and dippers. It was a fun time. > > A friend of mine dropped in about an hour before I had to leave, having the evening free. I called my friend, told her another friend was visiting and since it was a casual event, could I bring him? She said “Sure. The more the merrier.” We stopped for ingrediants for a sweet batter mix that was good for dipping fruit into before putting it in hot oil. The party was a wonderful time. > > Well, the hostess just called me spitting. It seems I hadn’t told her my friend was gay, and she just found out. I’ve know this person for a few years and have never seen any sign of homophobia from her. Of course, I don’t go around announcing my friend’s sexuality or asking them how they feel about other people’s sexuality. “Don’t ask, don’t tell” is my motto, along with “As long as they stay out of my boudoir, I really don’t give a fuck.” > > My (ex) friend claims I should have told her, people were dipping into the same pots (fondue pots, that is), and I could have exposed all of the guest to HIV or AIDS. I asked her is she knew the status of her other guests. “Well, I know they’re not gay.” I fear my friend is no longer a friend. > > So how would you have handled this? I would consider this incident a blessing. Do you really want a homophobic, willfully ignorant, bigoted, and remarkably stupid friend? You may wish to plant a big, sloppy wet kiss on her, though, just so she can feel justified in the slanders she is no doubt spreading about you. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/27 "2009-02-14T19:59:32Z")
I would ask her for a list of things she should be told about people that are going to be around her. If she actually starts giving one, then you laugh and write her off. Life is too short to spend it surrounded by people like that. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/28 "2009-02-14T21:12:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Why did you post this in IMHO? You already said the friend is an ex-friend (a move I support BTW). Are you just looking for “gay-friendly points”? What’s wrong with that? I’m less than 500 points away from redeeming my own parade float. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/29 "2009-02-14T23:50:26Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > My view is that nobody did anything wrong here. _Au contraire._ If people were dipping into fondue pots something that already had their spit on it, everyone is sharing diseseases, not just the homos. If you’re worried about disease beign shared through a given vector, don’t look for the homos, STOP MAKING A PARTY OUT OF THAT DISAEASE VECTOR! Of course, if she wasn’t worried about diseases from straight people, she’s either a homophobe or…um…thinking here…no, it would pretty much have to be homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![JustAnotherGeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/58f4c7/32.png) [@JustAnotherGeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustAnotherGeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/30 "2009-02-14T23:58:36Z")
Dude, wait, what? Transmission of germs through an oil fondue has got to be so near zero as to be completely non-existent in one’s lifetime. That oil’s gonna be hot to cook the food, so it’ll cook any ickies, too. As for a cheese or chocolate fondue, I don’t know how many people lick their food before putting it in the warm sauce. Any saliva that may possibly be on the fork has got to be tiny. I doubt people have lougies hanging off of their dipping tines. I’d have felt free to rip into your ex-friend as a raving imbecilic homophobic moron. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/31 "2009-02-15T00:02:48Z")
I really don’t understand why this is a dilemma. If I bring a Jewish friend along and the host turns out to be a Nazi… ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/32 "2009-02-15T04:48:15Z")
I think after she mentioned that he could have been spreading AIDS, my statement would have been “Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t know he had AIDS” with an apologetic tone\*, just to hear her response. I would have also asked her how she knew that he had AIDS. Personally, I wouldn’t even bother explaining how AIDS is transmitted. If she automatically assumes every single gay person has teh AIDS, I don’t think anything involving transmission of said disease is going to make sense to her. \*I mention the apologetic tone so I can hear her true response, if you get sarcastic she’ll get defensive. Also, this way YOU get to end the friendship because she’s an idiot, instead of her ending the friendship because you have a gay friend. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/33 "2009-02-15T04:56:07Z")
You might consider, after everything has calmed down, taking a shot at correcting her misinformation. It’s hard for me to imagine anybody can still think HIV is transmitted that way unless they’re willfully ignorant, but I felt the same way about Bush’s re-election. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/34 "2009-02-15T04:57:34Z")
This situation has way too many ends to catch hold of – **Annie** , do you know how or from whom former friend learned about gay friend? It just seems weird. If it was someone at the party, why take two weeks to tell the hostess, and if it were done sooner why would the hostess take two weeks to remonstrate with you? If it was someone not at the party, then who? It’s not directly relevant, but knowing the answer may expose another or even the original problem. How would I have handled it? Badly, I’m afraid. A suddenly-discovered flaw in a friend of long standing, especially one that affects other friends, is delicate enough – no doubt the stress is an order of magnitude greater when someone thinks, or pretends to, that their life is at stake and they have been grievously wronged. To me the most optimistic scenario is that your outraged former friend’s ignorance was exploited by someone who had neither her, nor your gay friend’s, nor your interests in mind. If you value your former friendship, proceed on that basis. First, AIDS tests are no longer very expensive. Offer to pay for and drive her to one – the negative result will reassure her and the professionals there will tactfully explain why there was little to fear. Second, explain to her that you are a good enough friend not to casually endanger her life, that you did not know about her phobia (now may not be the time to describe it as animalistic, bigoted, unreasoning fear) but that you will respect it as long as she tries to overcome it. Third, tell her that though her home is entirely hers, you cannot feel welcome there as long as any of your friends are not, but that you will help any honest effort of hers to enlighten herself. I don’t see any other honest way to do this, given the assumptions I’ve made to fill in the gaps in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/35 "2009-02-15T05:03:51Z")
> [@JustAnotherGeek](#): > > Transmission of germs through an oil fondue has got to be so near zero as to be completely non-existent in one’s lifetime. That oil’s gonna be hot to cook the food, so it’ll cook any ickies, too. Wont destroy prions though. Didn’t think of that, did you? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/36 "2009-02-15T05:43:35Z")
The only thing you did wrong was to claim that you had fun at a fondue party. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/37 "2009-02-15T06:24:51Z")
Yes, you did wrong. You did not screen your friends for hilariously over the top homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/38 "2009-02-15T06:35:07Z")
Thirty odd posts in and no one mentioned WHY the friend was “really” upset. Annie brings this handsome, stylish, cultured, sociable, hunk of a guy to the party. The hostess is really “grooving” on him - her husband has become slovenly, uninteresting, out-of-touch. She decides to make a move, maybe set up something for later and gets, “I’m sorry, I’m gay”. She’s devastated, humiliated, finally angered. She wraps up this anger in a plausable lie and dumps it on Annie like it’s her fault. So Annie, take no responsibility for this incident. It’s just a cover-up of an attempted affair gone horribly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![mudkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@mudkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mudkicker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/39 "2009-02-15T09:25:47Z")
The only thing you did wrong was not telling her to go fuck herself when she phoned you. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2009, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/40 "2009-02-15T12:09:26Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > So did I do wrong here?.. Two weeks ago a friend of mine had a fondue party. She provided dippers and hot oil, and the guests were invited to bring other fondues and dippers. It was a fun time. > > A friend of mine dropped in about an hour before I had to leave, having the evening free. I called my friend, told her another friend was visiting and since it was a casual event, could I bring him? She said “Sure. The more the merrier.” This. You could have avoided all the drama if you had applied the rule of etiquette that you do not bring uninvited people to other people’s events. You should not have asked the hostess. You put her on the spot to say yes (few people have the stones to say no). You should have told your second friend that you had a prior engagement and must run. Since you didn’t though, yes, her reaction was rude and clearly ignorant. What did she want you to do at that point? Pay for her HIV/AIDS test? It’s unfortunately reminiscent of the Ryan White days of cruel prejudice, but if she is no more informed than that in the 21st Century, I don’t see your telling her anything changing how she feels. I also don’t see her wanting to revive this friendship and can’t imagine why you would, but if you do, apologize for bringing an uninvited, non-vetted acquaintance to her home. Just my two cents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828.md?page=3)