# So did I do wrong here? Moral dilema and outraged (former) friend. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828 "2009-02-14T15:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/81 "2009-02-16T19:30:48Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Perhaps you do owe your friend an apology. The gay one. > > "I’m sorry, had I known that my friend was such an asshat, I wouldn’t have gone This needs to be on [SomeEcards.com](http://www.someecards.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/82 "2009-02-16T20:45:34Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > If “catching” HIV from a fondue pot was even the remotest of possibility, you’d think the FDA or the local Department(s) of Health would ban restaurants from serving it and order the immediate closure of places whose entire _theme_ is fondue, like [The Melting Pot](http://www.meltingpot.com/). What a stupid idiot. Glad she’s an ex-friend. Actually, if you wanted to be evil, you could invent your ex-friend to dinner at The Melting Pot, along with the friend you brought to the party, his partner, and some other friends. It would be an expensive way to make a point, but it might make it. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/83 "2009-02-16T22:48:14Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Actually, if you wanted to be evil, you could invent your ex-friend to dinner at The Melting Pot, along with the friend you brought to the party, his partner, and some other friends. It would be an expensive way to make a point, but it might make it. The level of fighting ignorance here is out-farking-standing. I love this idea, **siege**. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/84 "2009-02-16T23:52:26Z")
> [@Shirley\_Ujest](#): > > The level of fighting ignorance here is out-farking-standing. > I love this idea, **siege**. Can you imagine, even for a moment, the Host/Hostess at the desk in front asking, “How many in your party? Six? Ok, anyone gay?” I mean it’s just so fucking ridiculous it boggles the imagination. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/85 "2009-02-17T01:26:10Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > Ding, ding, ding…we have a winner. > > I finally talked to gay friend. He’s been having a romantic V-day weekend with his partner of 28 years. It seems he ran into hostess and thanked her again for letting him come to the party and have a good time. She suggested getting together again, he mentioned having a partner. She said “Oh, I’d like to meet her,” he said “You mean _him_” and she said “OH” and just walked away without another word. > > I’ve know her for over five years and never knew she had such a thing against gay people. People will always surprise you. > > She’s an ex-friend, believe me. I read this, and I wonder if it isn’t so much that she has a thing against gay people, as that she was embarrassed at coming on to him, and handled it poorly. It’s possible she called you right after finding out, and feels stupid now. You certainly don’t owe her an apology, but it wouldn’t hurt to be open to her apologizing to you. People do stupid things some times. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/86 "2009-02-17T03:25:05Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > unless he was stabbing people with the little fondue forks and then jizzing into the open wounds !?!? Have you hidden a video camera in my bedroom?!?!? ---
**Author:** ![Sebastienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Sebastienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sebastienne)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/87 "2009-02-17T03:50:01Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > You say this like it’s a universal truth, like “rules of etiquette” cover all social situations. You have no idea of **Annie** ’s relationship to her friend (ok, you have some idea because **Annie** didn’t know she was ignorant and possibly bigoted), and she might be the kind of friend to whom it’s no problem to ask about bringing a guest. Those kinds of friends do exist. Indeed. The “rules” of etiquette aren’t a set of immutable laws, but a set of situation-dependent customs and principles. While it’s generally not proper to ask if one may bring others to a party, informal gatherings amongst certain friends may well have a different expectation, and that’s perfectly well. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/88 "2009-02-17T04:51:50Z")
I’ve been to and hosted parties in which just showing up with an extra friend would have been fine, I’ve never hosted a party for which it would have been uncool to ask in advance to bring a friend, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/89 "2009-02-17T14:27:33Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > !?!? Have you hidden a video camera in my bedroom?!?!? Excuse me, you got fondue on my jizz! You got jizz on my fondue! ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/90 "2009-02-17T17:09:31Z")
Good grief. It’s fondue, not 2 girls 1 cup. You don’t put the dipper in your mouth. After you dip the item, it goes on your plate. Then you eat it. People are very comfortable pointing out the OP’s friend’s ignorance of AIDS, but the bigger problem is inferential, not epidemiological. Contracting AIDS is a path-dependent event. Gay men might have a higher AIDS infection rate than heterosexual men, but human beings are not ergodic. Over time, individual behaviors do not converge to the base rates given by their race/class/etc. Getting AIDS is often highly path-dependent: unless you know that a given gay man is on an AIDS acquisition path, you cannot infer that he is more likely to have AIDS than any random heterosexual man. This is the same illogic that justifies racial profiling of all kinds. Certain ethnic groups might have a higher rate of criminal activity, but that does not mean that the base rate is the same as every individual rate and as such, does not justify racial profiling of any kind. You have to be able to infer that a subject is on some sort of criminal path. Being gay, black, wearing a turban, etc just doesn’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/91 "2009-02-17T17:26:13Z")
Stop it! You’re mixing logic in with my outrage and it tastes funny! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/92 "2009-02-17T17:32:34Z")
Excuse my ignorance but…isn’t fondue itself pretty…um…gay? ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/93 "2009-02-17T17:51:42Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Can you imagine, even for a moment, the Host/Hostess at the desk in front asking, “How many in your party? Six? Ok, anyone gay?” > > I mean it’s just so fucking ridiculous it boggles the imagination. “Table for six? Smoking or non? Gay or straight? I’m sorry, the gay section is full; would you like to wait in the bar?” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/94 "2009-02-17T17:56:42Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Excuse my ignorance but…isn’t fondue itself pretty…um…gay? It’s sticking bread into hot melted gelatinous cheese. Mmmm, gelatinous cheese. If that’s gay, stick me in a pair of assless chaps and parade me around the Village! ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/95 "2009-02-17T22:56:40Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > It’s sticking bread into hot melted gelatinous cheese. Mmmm, gelatinous cheese. If that’s gay, stick me in a pair of assless chaps and parade me around the Village! Well, fuck me pink and call me spam! ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/96 "2009-02-17T23:47:03Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Excuse my ignorance but…isn’t fondue itself pretty…um…gay? Nope. Fondues have made a come-back. I love having people over for fondue – it’s a great way to extend dinner and conversation. We start with a cheese fondue, then switch to a broth fondue for the main course (much healthier than oil) and finish off with chocolate fondue for dessert. And each course is served with a different wine. Yum! And as **Maeglin** says, you don’t eat from the fondue fork, you just use it to cook with, then eat with standard utensils. Said process can be observed in the wild, [here](http://www.amschwartz.net/jillandthomas/images/2007NewYears/2007NewYears03.JPG)\*. 🙂 \*Pictured are Spiny Norman, left, and Johnny L.A., right. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/97 "2009-02-17T23:50:43Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Well, fuck me pink and call me spam! Can I fuck you like spam and call you Pink? Fondue is awesome. I haven’t had it in years, but I remember having meat fondue, and it was great. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/98 "2009-02-17T23:59:08Z")
I think you should dip your former friend’s head in a fondue pot ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/99 "2009-02-18T00:01:52Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > And as **Maeglin** says, you don’t eat from the fondue fork, you just use it to cook with, then eat with standard utensils. Said process can be observed in the wild, [here](http://www.amschwartz.net/jillandthomas/images/2007NewYears/2007NewYears03.JPG)\*. 🙂 > > \*Pictured are Spiny Norman, left, and Johnny L.A., right. Squee! Where can I get those plates?! I heart them. (Where can I get me a **Spiny Norman** , while you’re at it? He’s almost as cute as those plates! ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828/100 "2009-02-18T00:12:28Z")
I bought them at my favorite local kitchen-wares store, but they’re available through [Amazon.com, here](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0006GMMHW/gofondue-20/ref=nosim). You might like [this style](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M55Q0W/ref=pd_sbs_k_img_2), too. I wish I could Google up a **Spiny Norman** for you, but I’m afraid he’s one-of-a-kind that I had to special order from Denmark. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-i-do-wrong-here-moral-dilema-and-outraged-former-friend/485828.md?page=6)