# So did Lee Oswald act alone or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185 "2010-05-03T18:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/141 "2010-05-21T06:51:45Z")
Maybe it wasn’t anything. Maybe it was just an empty bag. No one saw them in the bag; no one saw the rifle in the bag either. And then again, maybe he took the rods with him when he left the TSBD and discarded them later. Who knows? The important thing is that there is no possible way the “bag” contained the Carcano. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/142 "2010-05-21T07:58:30Z")
That’s assuming the witness estimates of the size of the package are correct, right? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/143 "2010-05-21T11:49:44Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > The important thing is that there is no possible way the “bag” contained the Carcano. Unless the witness was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/144 "2010-05-21T16:06:45Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > Maybe it wasn’t anything. Maybe it was just an empty bag. No one saw them in the bag; no one saw the rifle in the bag either. And then again, maybe he took the rods with him when he left the TSBD and discarded them later. Who knows? > > The important thing is that there is no possible way the “bag” contained the Carcano. The rifle is 40 inches long, 35 inches when disassembled. The witness said a couple of feet. He was off by a foot and this is what you have to stay that Oswald didn’t kill Kennedy? It was his rifle. It was missing from his house. It had his finger prints on it. The bullet came from this gun. If you just don’t want to believe it, in spite of overwhelming evidence, just say so. But this is such a non-starter it’s not worth this much discussion. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/145 "2010-05-21T16:10:48Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > And then again, maybe he took the rods with him when he left the TSBD and discarded them later. Except the people who ran into him on the second floor of the TSBD after the shooting didn’t see him carrying a bag and/or curtain rods. (Hey, maybe he was carrying special invisible curtain rods.) > [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > The important thing is that there is no possible way the “bag” contained the Carcano. Because there’s no way you can fit a 34.8 inch rifle into a 38 inch bag. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/146 "2010-05-21T16:12:27Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It had his finger prints on it. Just picking nits, but I’m pretty sure it was Oswald’s palm print that was found on the rifle, instead of finger prints. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/147 "2010-05-21T16:14:49Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > Just picking nits, but I’m pretty sure it was Oswald’s palm print that was found on the rifle, instead of finger prints. That’s correct of course, just thought it was a distinction without a difference. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/148 "2010-05-21T16:30:18Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > From the Warren Commission: “Frazier estimated that the bag was 2 feet long “give and take a few inches,” and about 5 or 6 inches wide.” > > Sounds pretty small for a rifle, even a broken down one. So what. When LHO got in the car that morning, Frazier couldn’t have cared less about the length of his package 😉 He was worried about getting to work, what to do at work, what he was having for lunch, if he has 15 cents for a coke and if the wife was going to give him some lov’n that night. The length of LHO’s package, he didn’t give a hoot about. About three hours later it was the most important thing in his life, but not then. How big is that box on your co-worker’s desk you saw this morning? Do you know plus or minus a few inches? Of course not. One of a million things you barely noticed today. It’s the same thing here. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/149 "2010-05-21T17:29:42Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > Gee, maybe it _was_ curtain rods… Since you want to speculate wildly, why did Oswald retrieve curtain rods, and where did he get them from? There was no place in his really small apartment to hang them, he hadn’t spoke to his landlord about redecorating, no curtain rods were ever found in the TSBD, no curtain rods were missing from the garage where he retrieved the rifle (but, surprise surprise, the rifle - later found in the TSBD - was missing from the garage), etc. If you are just going to “what-if” this very plausible detail (i.e. Oswald brought the rifle to work), then why don’t you apply the same scrutiny to your conspiracy theory? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/150 "2010-05-21T18:46:42Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Nonsense. I remember exactly where I was when I heard that Reagan was shot. Everybody old enough to remember, remembers. He lies about it. I was 16 in 1981. I do not recall where I was when the news came in that the President was shot. (Was that a school day?) My apologies, I imagine the conversation has moved on by now. ---
**Author:** ![Perciful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Perciful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perciful)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/151 "2010-05-21T22:52:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I doubt that anything was left behind in Kennedy’s neck and IIRC most of the bullet’s travel though Connelly was through soft tissue. > > Also, take a look at [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-cri43ttTo), which is a close-up of the Zapruder film. In the past I’d always thought Kennedy was hit while behind the sign but this close-up clearly shows that he and Connelly were both hit immediately after Kennedy emerged from behind the sign and it’s clear from the way both men react and the way Connelly grimaces that were hit at the same time. Thanks I have never seen this footage before. There are some videos where I did not see it from the front and in such detail. Horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/152 "2010-05-27T02:31:45Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > We know that Oswald claimed to his wife that he had taken some sniper shots at a general at a local base. We know that Oswald claimed to his wife that he had taken a sniper shot at a retired general at his home. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/153 "2010-05-27T02:36:42Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Yes, a man who has stated that he doesn’t know where he was self reports that he was 100 miles away and by the way heard about a supposed assassination attempt on the President of the US, didn’t report it until after and still doesn’t remember where he was when he heard. Which lie do we believe? George Bush, at the time a successful oilman, was a Rotary Club luncheon in Tyler, Texas where he had been invited to speak, when the news came that the president had been shot in Dallas. By mutual agreement, they canceled the speech, but there are numerous witnesses to the fact that Bush was there. Barbara Bush was with him in Tyler, and at a beauty parlor when the news broke. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/154 "2010-05-27T02:49:24Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There were at least 20 witnesses who heard shots from the grassy knoll. [http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKassassinationsC.htm](http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKassassinationsC.htm) You guys tell me they recanted? Fine, for each recantation you can cite, I will look at the circumstances. > > Here is Jean Hill saying how she was intimidated: Jean Hill was a fabricator who continued to embellish her story over the years as she became more and more popular with JFK assassination buffs. On the afternoon of the assassination, she was interviewed by a local television reporter: Q. “Did you see the person who fired the . . .” A. “No . . . I didn’t see any person fire the weapon . . .” Q. “You only heard it?” A. “I only heard it.” Jean Hill in 1991: > [@](#): > > Then, in half the time it takes for me to tell it, I looked across the street and I saw them shooting from the knoll. I did get the impression that day that there was more than one shooter, but I had the idea that the good guys and the bad guys were shooting at each other. I guess I was a victim of too much television, because I assumed that the good guys always shot at the bad guys. Mary was on the grass shouting, “Get down! Get down! They’re shooting! They’re shooting!” Nobody was moving and I looked up and saw this man, moving rather quickly in front of the School Book Depository toward the railroad tracks, heading west, toward the area where I had seen the man shooting on the knoll. So, I thought to myself, “This man is getting away. I’ve got to do something. I’ve got to catch him.” [More here.](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jhill.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/155 "2010-05-27T03:09:51Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > We know that Oswald claimed to his wife that he had taken a sniper shot at a retired general at his home. Never mind those niggling details, can you tell me how wide the windows were in Oswald’s rooming house were, in reference to the curtain rods he was carrying that day? Can you? **Can you??!?!?** Thought not. Oswald was not the shooter. Q.E.D. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/156 "2010-05-27T03:18:51Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > I am well aware of the seating arrangement of the Lincoln, but to be fair, the info regarding the car seating is a relatively modern development, within the last couple of years, isn’t it? I seem to remember seeing a special recently where this was discussed at length, but the question was answered by someone who programmed data into a computer, and predictably the computer gave them the answer they wanted because of the data they put into it. There are [numerous](http://www.wired.com/images/article/full/2007/11/kenney_580px.jpg) [photos](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/robinson1.jpg) and films that show the [jump seat](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt3.jpg) Connally was sitting on was several inches lower than the rear seat Kennedy was sitting on. Likewise, [numerous](http://www.in-broad-daylight.com/jfk.jpg) [photos](http://photos.upi.com/slideshow/lbox/7b7f3003cacd36c16afd35de5c50ddaa/JOHN-F-KENNEDY.jpg) and films of the motorcade, especially those taken from above street level, show that Connally’s right side was several inches inboard of Kennedy’s right side, due again to the position of the jump seat he was on. > [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > My remark had nothing to do with the seating arrangement in the car as much as it had to do with the amount of damage CE 399 is reported to have done on both JFK and Connally, only to emerge only slightly flattened. As well, take it’s weight, add the weight of what it left behind in JFK and what it left in Connally’s wrist and thigh and there seems to be more lead than the bullet weighed to begin with. Josiah Thompson, author of the pro-conspiracy _Six Seconds in Dallas_, did the math, and [debunked that claim](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/wound5.txt). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/157 "2010-05-27T12:49:51Z")
You mean Oswald’s palm print was found on **his** rifle, it appeared in **his** place of work, and the only way this could possibly happen is if he had took it there himself? Have you people never heard of planting evidence, a particularly favourite trick of intelligence agencies? ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/158 "2010-05-27T17:38:08Z")
Regarding your photo evidence, Walloon, none of the “numerous photos” are especially clear because either they were black and white, or because they were taken at an angle. Truthfully, to my eyes, in none of them does Connally look noticably inboard from JFK, since he seems to have his arm on the top of the door without looking uncomfortable about putting it there. The jump seat photo with the limo door open is a little clearer in this regard, no so much from the point of it being inboard, but from the point of it being lower. However, I don’t recall running across this picture before, to be honest. Understand that I’m not claiming that it’s a fake or anything, just that I had never seen it before. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/159 "2010-05-27T17:41:41Z")
Having seen it now, though, does it affect your theory of the assassination? Besides, it doesn’t matter if Connelly _could_ lean to the right, against the limo’s door. At the moment of the shooting, he was _not_ leaning against the side, but JFK was. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/160 "2010-05-27T20:04:17Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Having seen it now, though, does it affect your theory of the assassination? Not necessarily. The angle this photo was taken from probably makes the real measurement inboard look exaggerated. As well, I understand that the rear seat could be lowered and raised. It would be interesting to know exactly what height it was at on November 22, 1963, and where that would put JFK in relation to Connally. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Besides, it doesn’t matter if Connelly _could_ lean to the right, against the limo’s door. At the moment of the shooting, he was _not_ leaning against the side, but JFK was. Strangely, that’s not how it appears at Z-155 or so; I guess that seeing a picture of the limo and it’s occupants on Houston Street may prove this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185.md?page=9)