# So did Lee Oswald act alone or not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185 "2010-05-03T18:13:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/161 "2010-05-27T20:45:28Z")
See the five-frame animation of the Zapruder film at the bottom of [this page](http://users.skynet.be/mar/Eng/SBT/SBT_2-eng.htm#Sommet). Kennedy is sitting with his right arm resting on the top of the car door, while Connally sits with his right hand on his lap, holding his white Stetson hat. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/162 "2010-05-27T21:09:30Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > Not necessarily. The angle this photo was taken from probably makes the real measurement inboard look exaggerated. _Probably_ it does? [Here’s a shot](http://itwasjohnson.impiousdigest.com/limo2.jpg) from behind the limo and the jumpseat is definitely not touching the right-side door. We see [from the film](http://www.middlehornleader.com/Zapruder%20big.jpg) that Kennedy’s right arm was resting outside the car and Connelly’s right arm was not, which suggests to me the the center of Kennedy’s body was more to the right then the center of Connelly’s body. If you have evidence that it was otherwise (and thus the single-shooter theory is flawed), please present it. If you’re just making up stuff, admit it. Anyway, [this analysis video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEh3Kgwhk0&feature=related) does more justice to the subject than I can. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/163 "2010-05-27T21:55:30Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Anyway, [this analysis video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kEh3Kgwhk0&feature=related) does more justice to the subject than I can. Ah, this is the special I was talking about above, the most recent one I remember. Interestingly, though, he says nothing about the height of the adjustable back seat (the one JFK was seated on). I guess the search for the answer to that question goes on. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/164 "2010-05-27T21:56:59Z")
Even if the seat is adjustable… so? ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/165 "2010-05-27T22:09:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Even if the seat is adjustable… so? That’s not the point, and you know it. The point is, “What height was it set at during the time of the assassination?” I doubt that you fail to see why _this_ is important. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/166 "2010-05-27T22:28:10Z")
Judging from the Zapruder film, it was neither set so high that Kennedy’s knees were at the level of Connely’s head, nor so low that Kennedy’s head was at the level of Connely’s neck. Before you can convince me that small variations in the seat’s height are important, you’ll have to explain why it is relevant. Is the video recreation off by some wild, significant amount? If it is, what’s your explanation for the injuries to K and C, and if it involves another shooter, where was he? If your entire argument is “We don’t know that exact positioning of the seats, therefore Oswald didn’t act alone”… well, that’s a waste of time and it invites the possibility that even if this information did become available, you’d just seize on something else, like not knowing the exact muzzle velocity of Oswald’s rifle to the nearest foot-per-second. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/167 "2010-05-27T23:45:11Z")
I notice this tendency among the conspiracy buffs to assert that we don’t _know_ such and such trivial detail, therefore the door is still open to _some_ sort of conspiracy. The exact length of the “curtain rods,” the exact height of the jump seat, whatever. It’s no longer about asserting that it was specifically the Mob or LBJ or Castro who offed Kennedy, now it’s just a pleading for acknowledgement that since such and such still isn’t known, therefore Kennedy’s shooter still isn’t known, and I’m not an utterly laughable tinfoil hatter, am I? Please? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/168 "2010-05-28T04:56:07Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > George Bush, at the time a successful oilman, was a Rotary Club luncheon in Tyler, Texas where he had been invited to speak, when the news came that the president had been shot in Dallas. By mutual agreement, they canceled the speech, but there are numerous witnesses to the fact that Bush was there. Barbara Bush was with him in Tyler, and at a beauty parlor when the news broke. Is there a cite on the net for that information? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/169 "2010-05-28T05:09:51Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Is there a cite on the net for that information? Some other JFK conspiracy theorists at least are aware of the claim he was in Tyler that day. [See here.](http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush.htm) Apparently Bush was staying in Dallas at the time and called the FBI from Tyler shortly after the shooting. The author of the web page asserts that Tyler is “very close” to Dallas, but it looks to be 95 to 100 miles away. Whether that’s really “very close” is up for interpretation. I’m surprised that nobody else has mentioned the fact that Richard Nixon actually was in Dallas the same day. He was there to speak to Pepsi employees. It looks like there are conflicting accounts of whether or not he was in Dallas at the time of the assassination. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/170 "2010-05-28T05:29:48Z")
I had heard Nixon was in Dallas, but he doings seem to be reliably accounted for. I ask about the stuff in Tyler, because I have seen GHWB’s report, which seems to me to be confirming that he is working for the CIA through a front oil company without being explicit, but not explaining where he was, which I would be quite surprised if it did. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/171 "2010-05-28T05:31:30Z")
Just don’t ask the Comedian where he was when he heard… ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/172 "2010-05-28T06:12:08Z")
My source is Kitty Kelley, _The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty_, 2004, pp. 212–213. I see that my memory erred on Bush’s host in Tyler; it was the local Kiwanis Club, not Rotary Club. Kelley interviewed and quotes the former Kiwanis vice president who was there. She also quotes from a letter Barbara Bush wrote at the time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/173 "2010-05-28T07:31:14Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/174 "2010-05-28T13:54:52Z")
As much as I’d like to believe that his whereabouts are accounted for, that being sourced back to Kitty Kelley means (to me) that it’s not an established fact. ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/175 "2010-05-29T01:23:47Z")
I’m just a spectator in the conspiracy debates on JKF’s assassination, but I haven’t seen this mentioned yet: [http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/](http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/) What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/176 "2010-05-29T01:48:55Z")
> [@In\_Winnipeg](#): > > The important thing is that there is no possible way the “bag” contained the Carcano. You’ve presented not a shred of evidence that would make it impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/177 "2010-05-29T02:00:25Z")
**RickJay** : CTs _never_ have any evidence. All they have is wishful thinking. Most of the wishful thinking is that other people will be so amazed by the WONJCT incredible insight that they’ll kowtow, muttering the mantra, “We are not worthy! We are not worthy!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/178 "2010-05-29T02:29:20Z")
> [@AveDementia](#): > > What do you guys think? That no matter how JFK’s head had moved, this guy would claim it proved a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/179 "2010-05-29T03:32:33Z")
[QUOTE=AveDementia] What do you guys think? [/QUOTE] That this has been addressed and debunked literally for decades. The best debunking I can think of is watch an episode of Locked and Loaded sometime when the gunny puts a round through one of his watermelons. I’ve seen several times when you can clearly see exactly the same effect as your cite…i.e. a small hole in the back where the bullet enters and a large hole in the front where it exits, and the watermelon moving, to paraphrase that stupid ass movie JFK ‘back, and to the right…back and to the right’. It’s seriously not a startling effect, even though Kevin Costner made it seem startling, and your cite gives the appearance that no one ever thought of this before. Only in Hollywood do people hit with a bullet fly away from the direct of the shot…in the real world they (or watermelons) actually can move back down the flight of the bullet. Another good example I’ve seen recently was when the Mythbusters were testing Hollywood gun shots, and one of the guys blasts a dead pig hanging up on a hook. Mythbuster shoots pig, and pig comes off the hook…back in the direction the bullet came from. -XT ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185/180 "2010-05-29T04:53:40Z")
> [@AveDementia](#): > > I’m just a spectator in the conspiracy debates on JKF’s assassination, but I haven’t seen this mentioned yet: > > [JFK assassination film hoax](http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/) > > What do you guys think? This guy’s thesis is that the conspirators took a year to fabricate a fake film, which confused people about where the shooters were, and convinced most people for three decades that there really was a conspiracy. What were these conspirators trying to do anyway? One would think that they’d create a film that convinced everyone, right then, that Oswald must have been the lone shooter, but they flubbed up so bad that it had the opposite effect for 30 years! Only after that amount of time did everyone finally decode those fine details that the hoaxers put into it, which indicate to the very careful observer that the head shot did indeed come from behind. I can just hear the head of the NWO talking to the crew who hoaxed the film: “You idiots! You were supposed to give me a film that clearly showed a shot from behind! But people who see this think that it came from the right/front! Now everyone will know that this was a conspiracy!” “But boss, it may seem like that at first, but we put in subtle details that really do show that it would have been a rear-shot. We’re pretty sure that within a few decades, researchers will find these details and will figure out how this film indicates a shot from the rear! It’s brilliant!” And they almost got away with it. But thanks to the intrepid researcher who actually posts his conclusions on the Internet where no one can doubt its veracity, the world is finding out the truth! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-lee-oswald-act-alone-or-not/538185.md?page=10)