# So... did Texas really just do away with plumbing codes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 1, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882 "2019-06-01T16:55:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/21 "2019-06-03T15:10:51Z")
I don’t have the time right now to research how things are in TX, but I’ll tell you how they are in NC. NC has (for example) a Board of Examiners of Electrical Contractors. They license all electrical contractors. (Duh!) They also develop the administrative code to enforce the licensing statutes. But…they have nothing to do with the State Building Codes or Electrical Codes. The Codes are adopted (and enforced) by the Office of the State Fire Marshal. Their Building Code Division adopts and amends all the Codes for the state. The NCBEEC enforces licensing requirements (including the general requirement that work has to conform to the Electrical Code), but it does this with three investigators covering the whole state. They are not the same as local code officials who would perform inspections, handle permitting, and so forth. TL;DR: If you abolished the licensing board in NC, it would have no impact whatsoever on whether there are codes or whether or not they are enforced. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/22 "2019-06-03T15:52:47Z")
So I went and looked on reddit to see if any Texans were talking about this. Basically, it’s not the plumb_ing_ that this body regulates, but the licensing of the plumb_ers_. Losing this shifts the responsibility (and the cost) of licensing to the local municipalities. Which is going to be fun for plumbers trying to work in suburban areas where you have to get licensed by 5+ (probably a lot more than 5) cities just to keep your business going in one small part of the area. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/23 "2019-06-03T16:10:42Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > From time to time, posters on these very boards have suggested all laws should have sunset clauses, to force legislatures to re-examine on a regular basis whether a law is needed, because there are too many laws. > > Looks like the Texas Legislature decided to implement that suggestion. The way the sunset laws work in Texas is that since 1977(when Texas was firmly Democrat, FYI) every state agency has had a sunset date, at which it will be automatically abolished, unless the Legislature passes a bill to continue it. The Sunset Commission is a state commission that reviews and makes recommendations to the Legislature about whether to continue agencies or not, as well as various policy and structural improvements to the agencies for better functioning. As far as the plumbing board was concerned, apparently it was something of a shitshow, and the sunset commission was recommending that they be rolled into the department of licensing and regulation, which already oversees several other construction trades. It sounds to me like the sunset commission did their job, but the Legislature, gang of clowns that they are, dropped the ball while worrying about politically motivated grandstanding, and failed to pass the bill implementing the recommendations. One thing though- the agency will be open until Sept 1, 2020, so it’ll be a year or so (9/1/2020 - 5/31/2021) when plumbing will not be regulated by the state. [https://www.sunset.texas.gov/reviews-and-reports/agencies/texas-state-board-plumbing-examiners](https://www.sunset.texas.gov/reviews-and-reports/agencies/texas-state-board-plumbing-examiners) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/24 "2019-06-03T17:02:50Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Certainly there must be city and or county enforcement. A high rise in Houston is gonna have to meet some specs. Huh…Houston, the city where it was considered to be A-OK to build a shit ton of houses in an area that’s actually designed to be a catchment for floodwater? Where a swat of people lost their houses to a predictably cataclysmic flood subsequent to a predictably forceful hurricane? Pardon me for my skepticism that the city of Houston would reliably require 21st century level plumbing for a high rise. If the developer had deep enough pockets the whole shebang could likely be built without functioning toilets and tissue paper piping. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/25 "2019-06-03T19:30:09Z")
Texas is bringing back Freedom Plumbing! Followed shortly by Liberty Dysentery. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/26 "2019-06-03T20:38:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Texas is bringing back Freedom Plumbing! > > Followed shortly by Liberty Dysentery. Free The Feces!!! ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/27 "2019-06-03T20:39:14Z")
Somehow I’m not surprised. It sounds like, given time, the libertarian legislators in Texas will get rid of everyone from the local dog-catchers all the way up to the Governor. Which means [this guy](https://me.me/i/libertarian-fire-department-4645410) will have nothing (left) to worry about. :smack: –G! ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/28 "2019-06-03T20:48:59Z")
Idaho apparently has done an order of magnitude better, and [repealed its entire regulatory code](https://www.mercatus.org/bridge/commentary/idaho-repeals-its-regulatory-code) (the link is to a web site that thinks this was a grand thing to do). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/29 "2019-06-03T21:21:06Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Huh…Houston, the city where it was considered to be A-OK to build a shit ton of houses in an area that’s actually designed to be a catchment for floodwater? Where a swat of people lost their houses to a predictably cataclysmic flood subsequent to a predictably forceful hurricane? Pardon me for my skepticism that the city of Houston would reliably require 21st century level plumbing for a high rise. If the developer had deep enough pockets the whole shebang could likely be built without functioning toilets and tissue paper piping. Not exactly… what happened is that on the far western edge of the area, but well outside the city limits, some people built houses on land that was basically within the Addicks and Barker flood control reservoir areas, but not explicitly reserved as such, and their houses flooded during Harvey. What you’re probably thinking about are the people whose homes were along Buffalo Bayou and whose homes would not have normallly flooded, except that the Corps of Engineers let out a lot of floodwater to avoid flooding from the reservoirs, and more or less caused abnormal flooding downstream along the bayou. What you’re describing has nothing whatsoever to do with the state of plumbing codes in the City of Houston itself. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/30 "2019-06-04T01:29:54Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The general rule of thumb is that if something was legal per code at the time it was done, then you’re okay. Hence if you have a classic water wasting toilet you are good even if a new rule on efficient toilets goes into effect. > > Some jurisdictions might have upgrade requirements on critical items or you may be forced to fix something when doing a repair/replacement. > > Insurance companies and potential buyers down the road might feel differently about it. That’s what I was wondering. For the next fifty or so years, Texas realtors and home sellers will have to deal with people asking “Is this a 2020 house?” ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/31 "2019-06-04T01:44:56Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > So I went and looked on reddit to see if any Texans were talking about this. Basically, it’s not the plumb_ing_ that this body regulates, but the licensing of the plumb_ers_. Losing this shifts the responsibility (and the cost) of licensing to the local municipalities. > > Which is going to be fun for plumbers trying to work in suburban areas where you have to get licensed by 5+ (probably a lot more than 5) cities just to keep your business going in one small part of the area. The code is also [expiring on September 1](https://www.texastribune.org/2019/05/28/texas-plumbers-future-laws-board-abolished/?fbclid=IwAR3doPlq4Oo6uylp32zZuI3egawDLnyzzCgfglOJvBb1635vohZdehxNVl0). > [@](#): > > The state plumbing code will cease to exist on Sept. 1 while the state plumbing agency, which had 28 employees as of March, will have a “wind down” period to wrap up operations by September 2020. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/32 "2019-06-04T12:48:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That’s what I was wondering. For the next fifty or so years, Texas realtors and home sellers will have to deal with people asking “Is this a 2020 house?” Note that upgrades and repairs, not just a new home, would be problematic _ **if** _ there was a window of non-standard plumbing. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/33 "2019-06-04T19:43:16Z")
Okay so, aside from my feeble attempt at humor, above, I noticed in my city’s codes and regulations that they have a clause regarding electrical regulations that they defer-to and adopt-by-proxy the National Electricians Code, about which Wikipedia says it is not Federally mandated but… > [@](#): > > It is typically adopted by states and municipalities in an effort to standardize their enforcement of safe electrical practices. In some cases, the NEC is amended, altered and may even be rejected in lieu of regional regulations as voted on by local governing bodies. So, to assuage the terror coming from this news, it just might be possible that these states and municipalities are doing the same kind of thing with regard to the Uniform Plumbing Code. I’ve been spending far too much time on various websites related to outdoor irrigation and have learned that there’s a big difference between the standardized threading for garden hose connections versus PVC pipe threading which is the same as copper/galvanized/iron threadings but different from the threading for various drink containers. National, in the NEC and NP sense is referring to trade associations that have memberships and experts all across the USA and adopt standardized Best practices for their trade practitioners as well as uniform engineering specifications (e.g. the angle, pitch, depth, and spacing of a pipe thread). I haven’t read the codes and laws and regulations for the states that have been mentioned above but, ideally, the result would be a shift into conformity with best practices & standards rather than localized pockets of exceptions-to-give-locals-time-to-hear-about-it-and-adapt. I would HOPE the intention is to get-with-the-program, rather than a move toward engineering anarchy – like a religious conviction\* that insists a devotee mix iron and copper piping throughout his house. –G! - “Look…it’s right here in the 14th Commandment, from that Tablet that Moses accidentally dropped…” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/34 "2019-06-04T19:58:04Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Note that upgrades and repairs, not just a new home, would be problematic _ **if** _ there was a window of non-standard plumbing. In the hypothetical future, all Texas realty transactions will prolly be intensely focused on exactly when something was built and by whom. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/35 "2019-06-04T20:29:58Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > [COLOR=“DarkRed”]I’ve been spending far too much time on various websites related to outdoor irrigation and have learned that there’s a big difference between the standardized threading for garden hose connections versus PVC pipe threading which is the same as copper/galvanized/iron threadings [/FONT] Oh yeah, the good old 3/4" NHT vs. 3/4" NPT thread stuff. I think if they could be distinguished at a glance somehow, it wouldn’t be quite so aggravating. ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/36 "2019-06-05T20:27:29Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I’ve often used “plumbing” as an example of how stupid anti-Science stuff is. > > Suppose someone claimed that all plumbers were atheists, etc. That the way to get rid of a clog was to pray it away. If you used a drain snake you are clearly working for the devil. Etc. > > I guess my humorous analogy is an actual thing in Texas. You are headed straight down the drain…to Hell! (yes, I’m kidding) ---
**Author:** ![TimfromNapa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@TimfromNapa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimfromNapa)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/37 "2019-06-05T20:31:23Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Waitaminnit… the _plumbing code_ itself had a sunset provision??? Why the hell would anyone write a plumbing code with a sunset provision? > > So come September you can install any gear any which way, have the toilet, kitchen sink and sump pump all go into one same 3 inch drain, bring back lead pipe, take out the relief valve in the water heater? > > Seems like someone really, really, really hated how much their plumber charged. Or got told they could not do some value-adding home improvement because it would be against code. Yay! Freedom rocks!! ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/38 "2019-06-06T02:56:32Z")
Apparently, Gov Abbott thinks he has some sort of superpower to [keep the State Board of Plumbing Examiners alive](https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/04/texas-greg-abbott-plumbing-board-regulation/) despite the fact that the sunset process in Texas is crystal clear about the consequences of failing to reauthorize an agency. It’s also unclear what good it would do to extend the agency if the plumbing code is eliminated anyway. The simply solution is for Abbott to call a special session of the Legislature. He gets to decide what’s on the agenda, so he could limit it to the plumbing issue. But he doesn’t want to do that because he’ll come under pressure from activists to add all sorts of things to the agenda like abortion, voter fraud, etc. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/39 "2019-06-06T15:02:49Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > The simply solution is for Abbott to call a special session of the Legislature. He gets to decide what’s on the agenda, so he could limit it to the plumbing issue. But he doesn’t want to do that because he’ll come under pressure from activists to add all sorts of things to the agenda like abortion, voter fraud, etc. And they’d probably get caught up in those and 5 minutes before adjournment would notice they again forgot to pass the plumbing regulation bill… ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882/40 "2019-06-07T02:49:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So let’s say I’m in Texas. September 1 comes and the plumbing code is no longer law. I build a house in October and it has plumbing that doesn’t comply with the old code. You’ll probably have to fund it yourself, because you won’t get a mortgage for it, nor insurance. If they don’t get this sorted out, at first the banks and insurance agencies will be reluctant to provide anything at all, but it’s business, so they’ll sort it out: instead of requiring that your house meets current TX regulations, they’ll find some other standard to require. Some things in the US are already regulated this way (you’ll be familiar with the UL symbol on your electronics), including some building codes, so it won’t be a big step for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-texas-really-just-do-away-with-plumbing-codes/834882.md?page=3)