# So, did the Patriots cheat? (yet again?) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 25, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605 "2012-01-25T16:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/21 "2012-01-25T22:26:23Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Wait, so you’re telling me people think Cundiff is going “If I knew it was fourth down, I would’ve known to kick it _through_ the goal posts! You’re supposed to kick it wide left if it’s third down!” Are you kidding me? I guess his excuse was that he went through some sort of “routine” before kicking. Something like on first down he’d be stretching his leg, second down he’d be kicking air, third down he’d nail a ball or two into a practive net, then on fourth he’d run out there and kick it. And supposedly he was watching that particular scoreboard to know what down it was. The scoreboard was wrong and suddenly he had to miss his 3rd down routine and run out onto the field.:rolleyes: The conspiracy is that the Pats somehow knew he had this routine, knew he watched this particular scoreboard, and rigged the board so his routine would get screwed up.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/22 "2012-01-25T22:31:48Z")
Wasn’t Bellicheck the head coach of Patriots when the [snow plow](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVP8JyEXujM&feature=related) came to clear the snow for a field goal kick? DnR 😃 I got a buddy who loves the Dolphins and hates the Patriots, I can a guarantee a blood pressure spike by just mentioning “Snow Plow”. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/23 "2012-01-25T22:43:10Z")
Disclaimer: Pats fan. It’s a bunch of nonsense. I go to MLB games fairly frequently and at least once a game the scoreboard messes up the count. Since NFL scoreboards are also run by humans, I assume the same general principle applies. Scoreboard operators make mistakes. They zone out or they hit the wrong button or they get confused. If you’re relying on that and not keeping track of things yourself, it’s your own fault. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/24 "2012-01-25T22:49:26Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Wasn’t Bellicheck the head coach of Patriots when the [snow plow](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVP8JyEXujM&feature=related) came to clear the snow for a field goal kick? > DnR 😃 > I got a buddy who loves the Dolphins and hates the Patriots, I can a guarantee a blood pressure spike by just mentioning “Snow Plow”. Heh, I remember watching that game as a kid (I think my Mom was there; she had season tickets for decades).😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_the_turtle/32/2926_2.png) [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/25 "2012-01-25T22:53:34Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > I guess his excuse was that he went through some sort of “routine” before kicking. Something like on first down he’d be stretching his leg, second down he’d be kicking air, third down he’d nail a ball or two into a practive net, then on fourth he’d run out there and kick it. And supposedly he was watching that particular scoreboard to know what down it was. The scoreboard was wrong and suddenly he had to miss his 3rd down routine and run out onto the field.:rolleyes: This is exactly what happened, so I’m not sure why the eyerolls were needed. Reading how the down was missed (a potential 1st down was not made due to Boldin fumbling forward), it seems more like a simple scoreboard operator error than any kind of malice (which could have effected either team, so I see no reason to assume it was intentional). They fault still lies with Harbaugh\* for not managing the situation and either taking the TO or the DOG when he realized his kicker was late getting onto the field. \*The fault actually lies with Lee Evans. How can you let that ball get knocked out of your hands in that situation. I would have had two hands on the ball, two arms wrapped around the ball and going to the ground in a fetal position. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/26 "2012-01-25T22:54:47Z")
According to PFT, John Harbaugh says [accusations of cheating are a bunch of nonsense.](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/25/john-harbaugh-addresses-scoreboardgate/) Good for him. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/27 "2012-01-25T22:57:19Z")
> [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](#): > > \*The fault actually lies with Lee Evans. How can you let that ball get knocked out of your hands in that situation. I would have had two hands on the ball, two arms wrapped around the ball and going to the ground in a fetal position. He did have two hands on the ball, and the play happened faster than that. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/28 "2012-01-25T23:11:15Z")
Not a Pats fan (well, but not a Ravens fan either…) but I agree, everyone knew it was 4th down. Put me in the camp that says not cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/29 "2012-01-26T01:36:12Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > They already have figurative asterisks on their 3 Super Bowl “championships” Only by people who so despise the Patriots and want so badly for the world to consider them “cheaters” that they make threads like this. Reminds me a little of birthers. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/30 "2012-01-26T01:43:07Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > Only by people who so despise the Patriots and want so badly for the world to consider them “cheaters” that they make threads like this. Reminds me a little of birthers. Let’s see, their head coach was fined $500,000 and they lost a 1st Round pick. What do you suppose the penalties would have been if they actually had cheated? Reminds me of holocaust deniers. Oh snap! ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/31 "2012-01-26T01:47:23Z")
Oh, and in case you didn’t know, $500,000 is the maximum allowable penalty. Belichick could’ve stolen the opponent playbook, bribed the opposing coordinators, and sent the referee a Mercedes, and the fine would’ve been the same. But this isn’t about spygate. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/32 "2012-01-26T02:06:15Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > But this isn’t about spygate. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/33 "2012-01-26T03:14:25Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Let’s see, their head coach was fined $500,000 and they lost a 1st Round pick. What do you suppose the penalties would have been if they actually had cheated? Reminds me of holocaust deniers. Oh snap! From 1996 to 1998, the Broncos were fudging their salary cap accounting to keep both Elway and Davis on the tea. They were [fined $950,000 and penalized a 3rd round draft pick](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1883127) for that - why does nobody add figurative asterisks to their 1997 and 1998 Super Bowl victories? Salary cap violations have a hell of a lot more effect on the game than placing a video camera in a different spot. Spygate is overblown by people who already hate the Patriots. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/34 "2012-01-26T03:32:22Z")
> [@howye](#): > > More to your point, while I am no Ravens fan, they certainly don’t suck as a team. Judging by number of teams still playing, they could be ranked as being third or fourth best in a 32 team league. They certainly played longer this year than everybody else in their division. He’s a Bengals fan. I’m a Steelers fan. There is one thing that we agree on… no matter how well the Ravens play in any given year, they suck. It has nothing to do with quality of play, it has to do with abject hatred. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/35 "2012-01-26T03:37:19Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Spygate is overblown by people who already hate the Patriots. And that’s, well, everybody but Patriot fans. Bellichick and Brady have certainly managed to accomplish a lot over the last decade, but that might be their greatest accomplishment, causing near-universal revulsion among everybody but Patriots fans who carry water for them. ---
**Author:** ![Fred\_Garvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c67d28/32.png) [@Fred\_Garvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fred_Garvin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/36 "2012-01-26T04:07:07Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > But this isn’t about spygate. That’s exactly what this is about. The clock issue, evident by the overwhelming response here, is a non issue. It’s just an excuse for you to bring up a Spygate. An Incident that is long over. An issue that , according to most people involved , including Eric Mangini and Dan Leberfeld, the Jet’s writer who originally broke the story, was overblown. You remind me of the middle-aged man that is still upset with the girl back in high school that turned him down for the prom. GET OVER IT!! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/37 "2012-01-26T05:09:20Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > And that’s, well, everybody but Patriot fans. Nah, lots of us non-Patriots fans are also tired of the (rather vocal) fans who keep bringing up Spygate. It’s a non-issue, and it’s the worst sort of flattery for the Patriots that it keeps being brought up. Are they really so good that this has to keep being brought up just to knock them down a peg? Just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/38 "2012-01-26T05:31:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Are they really so good that this has to keep being brought up just to knock them down a peg? Just let it go. It’s not about how good they are or any kind of jealousy. As per my (under my wife’s SN) post above, it’s about abject hatred. Anything that pisses off Patriots fans and gets them spun up is worth doing. People do it to me all the time. You get used to it. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/39 "2012-01-26T11:20:39Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > Let’s see, their head coach was fined $500,000 and they lost a 1st Round pick. What do you suppose the penalties would have been if they actually had cheated? Reminds me of holocaust deniers. Oh snap! Those penalties didn’t really have anything to do with cheating. They were a message that the brand new commissioner was sending loud and clear to the entire league: there’s a new sheriff in town. The rules violation was a nitpicky rules lawyering sort of affair, which Belichick thumbed his nose at for being petty and beneath him. The commish laid the smack-down in order to broadcast to the league that he wasn’t to be trifled with. Players are fined cold hard cash for uniform violations as well, because having your shirt untucked is CHEATING!!! CHEATERS!!! TAINTED VICTORY, HIS SHIRT WAS UNTUCKED!!!11!!1 If it isn’t cheating, why was he fined?! Huh? Huh?!! Durr hurr. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605/40 "2012-01-26T13:19:45Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > And that’s, well, everybody but Patriot fans. Bellichick and Brady have certainly managed to accomplish a lot over the last decade, but that might be their greatest accomplishment, causing near-universal revulsion among everybody but Patriots fans who carry water for them. I’m a Ravens fan. “Spygate” is still overblown bullshit, and the accusations of scoreboard manipulation are too. The Patriots are a good fucking team, and if you want to take the down a peg you have to beat them on the field. Anything else is just sour grapes. On that note, Go Giants! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-did-the-patriots-cheat-yet-again/610605.md?page=3)