# So, do Satanic cults exist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2005, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438 "2005-07-21T07:56:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/81 "2013-04-23T15:48:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Don’t care. Don’t want. Don’t need any more stories. Need reputable cites from someone other than yourself, not more anecdotes that make you feel important. This stuff you’re posting we all seen before, and when pressed for evidence others do the same thing: Claim that they don’t _dare_ reveal too much because their lives and the lives of others will be in danger. Not buying it, because if you were really afraid for your life you wouldn’t be going all over the internet telling these tall tales trying to get people to notice you. I reached out for conversation on other websites. A few victims discussed their experiences in Vineland and it unfortunately attracted members who were annoyed by the topic. We are rare in that sense and it is difficult to discuss a real life experience from a intelligent point of view without others reacting to you like you’re some sort of showboater looking for attention. Well,..what about the details of the story? Forget about who I am and focus on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/82 "2013-04-23T15:50:14Z")
IIRC, the only documented wide spread case of systematic sexual child abuse by a religious group in “recent” history of the western world was perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/83 "2013-04-23T15:50:59Z")
I think we _are_ focusing on the real topic here-people using scary stories to make themselves look special in the eyes of others. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/84 "2013-04-23T15:52:19Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > Well,..what about the details of the story? You’ve offered no support for any of it. Lots of similar stories have turned out to be false (I didn’t think you’d just admit that), so there’s no reason to believe any of it. Is there anything else to discuss? ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/85 "2013-04-23T15:57:12Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think anybody else here actually believes you were “placed” in the middle of anything or saw anything. And why would that be? I feel healed and was never a victim of Satanic ritual abuse. I was attacked or chased and that stays with me. But it’s surely not enough to affect my honest ability to discuss it freely for the sake of observation to the subject matter/debate in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/86 "2013-04-23T16:00:19Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > And why would that be? I feel healed and was never a victim of Satanic ritual abuse. Like I said: > [@Marley23](#): > > Lots of similar stories have turned out to be false (I didn’t think you’d just admit that), so there’s no reason to believe any of it. Do you have some facts that would give people a reason to treat this story as credible? ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/87 "2013-04-23T16:03:19Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > So, your support is that everyone else denies it happening, except for when they are talkign around a campfire. > > Ooookay. The social environment in Vineland. ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/88 "2013-04-23T16:05:19Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Cool story, dude. What kind of grade did your creative writing teacher give for that? A zero. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/89 "2013-04-23T16:05:53Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > The social environment in Vineland. No, it’s commentary about the “social environment” from you and not backed up by any independent source. ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/90 "2013-04-23T16:16:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Get a life, and stop trying to ruin the reputations of others that are innocent of your vast and vague accusations. No more stories unless you’ve got real evidence. Are you really this angry with me? I’m merely stating excerpts from the newspaper articles, testimonies of the victims and my personal history. I never said whether or not I believed in all the accusations made of anyone due to the realization and point in the first place..that the entire case is a mystery and will remain that way until someone has the will to solve it and print the truth. I wanted opinions and I’m sorry if I’ve annoyed you or offended you. I didn’t have those intentions. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/91 "2013-04-23T16:26:37Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > I’m merely stating excerpts from the newspaper articles, testimonies of the victims and my personal history. If you linked to any newspaper articles or quoted them, I missed it. > [@](#): > > I never said whether or not I believed in all the accusations made of anyone due to the realization and point in the first place.. You described the “accusations” in great detail and named people who you claimed were involved. If you expressed any skepticism about the whole thing, I didn’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/92 "2013-04-23T16:29:32Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > My position is moronic because I was placed right in the thicket of it as a child/teenager whatever? No, your position is moronic because you expect anyone to believe that. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/93 "2013-04-23T16:31:38Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > Are you really this angry with me? I’m merely stating excerpts from the newspaper articles, testimonies of the victims and my personal history. I never said whether or not I believed in all the accusations made of anyone due to the realization and point in the first place..that the entire case is a mystery and will remain that way until someone has the will to solve it and print the truth. I wanted opinions and I’m sorry if I’ve annoyed you or offended you. I didn’t have those intentions. Do you know the difference between "excerpts from the newspaper articles, testimonies of the victims " and “repeating stuff I think I remember from forty years ago?” And you have not demonstrated that there is a “case” to discuss, much less it being a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/94 "2013-04-23T16:37:24Z")
And why would these people, who fear for their lives because they supposedly don’t know who might be a member of this cult, tell _you_ anything? ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/95 "2013-04-23T16:40:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Like I said: > > Do you have some facts that would give people a reason to treat this story as credible? The only information available is the article written by Steve Jublou in the Weird N.J. magazine issue #20, James Maddox who discovered the body wrote about the experience on [Gateway.com](http://Gateway.com) ..which Gateway was his high school, it is mentioned in a few paperbacks, and most newspaper articles are difficult to obtain..although it did hit the N.Y. Times and that’s probably again..placing importance on the fads of the times who knows? It’s a mysterious case and was never addressed properly. It’s too difficult to prove these so called facts which I believe in. Even if it’s truly based on my personal experience with friends, I don’t expect anyone to believe me. I am a victim of shock and devistation..not a victim of rituals. I don’t have a problem discussing it and I compose instrumental musical themes which revolve around the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/96 "2013-04-23T16:46:14Z")
The fact that you would use [this](http://weirdnj.com/) as a source says quite a bit about any other “evidence” you might claim to have. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/97 "2013-04-23T16:51:35Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > The only information available is the article written by Steve Jublou in the Weird N.J. magazine issue #20 To be clear, he didn’t actually verify the story you’re telling, did he? All I can find is quotes from you on other message boards that he had a “nightmarish experience” and offer no details about what he experience. > [@](#): > > James Maddox who discovered the body wrote about the experience on [Gateway.com](http://Gateway.com) ..which Gateway was his high school [Gateway.com](http://Gateway.com) belongs to a company, not a website. I can’t find anything (except your posts) about whatever he wrote. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/98 "2013-04-23T17:03:03Z")
I knew a guy in high school who claimed to be a satan worshipper. I knew him well enough to know that he did this just to shock his friends and drive his mother nuts. I knew a woman in college who seriously worshipped satan. She was schizophrenic and delusional when not on her meds. Also she seemed to enjoy the shock value. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/99 "2013-04-23T17:30:13Z")
> [@Enidi](#): > > The fad craze of Satanic commercial rubbish in the 70’s has little to do with the seriousness of a real Satan worshippers sect that has existed for generations. True. Very little indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Enidi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Enidi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enidi)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438/100 "2013-04-23T17:38:25Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > To be clear, he didn’t actually verify the story you’re telling, did he? All I can find is quotes from you on other message boards that he had a “nightmarish experience” and offer no details about what he experience. > > [Gateway.com](http://Gateway.com) belongs to a company, not a website. I can’t find anything (except your posts) about whatever he wrote. The article is not available on the Weird N.J. website. It’s only in the magazine. Gateway is a site with members who attended the high school. James Maddox posted his testmony on that site. There is hardly any information available on the case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-do-satanic-cults-exist/313438.md?page=6)