# So does the board skew left? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457 "2005-05-25T17:23:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/61 "2005-05-25T19:08:06Z")
I think that we are fighting selective perception on the part of the Conservatives. In the majority of threads where someone is coming in to bash Bush just for the sake of bashing Bush, my experience is that the poster tends to be admonished by one of his own for doing so. The thing is, though, what the Conservative posters seem to take away from the thread is that there was some ill informed, emotional boob. Not that people were chiding that person (for example, I don’t "sprinkle my posts with “I hate Bush” as Friend **Shodan** states is required, yet somehow don’t get piled on (I have been scolded a time or two for being an asshole, but that is a different matter and probably well earned). If I may be permitted a small dig here, I would guess that the posters (like Shodan) get a pile on for reasons divorced from their personal politics and more related to their personalities. Just my opinion. The other thing to keep in mind is that at this moment in our history, we Lefties are feeling very under attack in every aspect of our waking lives. The things that we believe and the things that we hold dear are being assaulted and eroded. Not only that, but the strange part is that this seems to not be enough for the opposition. It seems not enough that they are controlling everything, but they seem to have this strange need to grind our faces in it. Given that, I guess that we would ask for your patience. Finally, it can become hard to always police our own. Think about it this way: If in the threads where one of our own is being unreasonable where we do speak out the message that our Loyal Opposition takes from that is just the loon and not the fact that the loon was called on his behavior, there is really no incentive to correct that person. Couple that with a desire to have a somewhat united front, and there you go ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/62 "2005-05-25T19:13:56Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > But no matter what the issue, if you don’t sprinkle your posts with “I hate Bush” every third paragraph or so, prepare for a pile-on from the usual suspects. I recognize that this is hyperbole; at the same time, it’s incorrect. For the record, I hate Bush. I challenge you to find the last post of mine that expressed a similar sentiment toward the man. I challenge you to find the last pile-on from the usual suspects that I experienced. I post a fair amount in political threads, and while I’m annoyed at the I-Hate-Bush all the time crowd, I don’t think it’s anywhere near as bad as you make out. They’re pretty easy to ignore, in my experience. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/63 "2005-05-25T19:14:52Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But these leanings really aren’t the problem, as I see it. The problem is that some people seem intent on drowning out dissenting voices. Nobody listens to anybody else. We misrepresent each other. We misunderstand each other. We taunt each other. We push each other’s buttons. I complain about pile-ons a lot, but truth be known, I’ve jumped in with them too when it suited me. There’s too much hysteria. Not just noise. MPSIMS has noise. The Pit has hatred, enmity, and infantile bullying. We aren’t trying to understand each other. We’re trying to see who can post the most clever rejoinder. Nobody wants to give. Very few people admit any error or permit any compromise. There’s too much plain meanness. And meanness begets meanness. Posters hold respect hostage and demand that you behave a certain way or say certain things lest they withold their respect. Well said. I don’t agree with **Liberal** often. But how can you expect anyone to see your point of view if you’re not willing to at least listen to theirs? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/64 "2005-05-25T19:17:58Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I assume you intend to start on Dick Cheney’s use of the f-word on the Senate floor next. Right? > > Right? > > Because you aren’t going to selectively omit _that_ example of puerile idiocy, right? I am unaware of this instance. Can you provide a link to the context? Was this in a speech, or was it something meant to be muttered under one’s breath, ala Pres Bush calling a NY Times report an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/65 "2005-05-25T19:19:31Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Thanks. > > Since it wasn’t an actual transcription of the speech but rather a few excerpts as a news item, it’s hard to get the context. But it does seem uncharacteristically shrill for Gore. And a bit broad-brushed. I’ve seen the guy make better articulated arguments, and I generally tend to agree with him. I’ll keep him. There’s a video link but I didn’t click on it. It might show more of the speech. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/66 "2005-05-25T19:22:09Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I am unaware of this instance. :dubious: > [@](#): > > Can you provide a link to the context? [Yes](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/24/cheney.leahy/) > [@](#): > > Was this in a speech, or was it something meant to be muttered under one’s breath, ala Pres Bush calling a NY Times report an asshole? It was to Sen. Leahy’s face. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/67 "2005-05-25T19:22:53Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I am unaware of this instance. Can you provide a link to the context? Was this in a speech, or was it something meant to be muttered under one’s breath, ala Pres Bush calling a NY Times report an asshole? [Here is the story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/24/cheney.leahy/). As I understand it, while it was not a part of a speech, per se, it was a major breach of Senate etiquette that this happened on the senate floor. A more interesting questions would be to explore the particular filter that you are using for the news that you get, as this was a really big story at the time and it is pretty surprising that you did not know about it (especially given the context of the esoteric knowledge that you seem to posses about the gaffs of your political opponents). ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/68 "2005-05-25T19:25:58Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > There’s a video link but I didn’t click on it. It might show more of the speech. I’ll have to look at that when I get home, as I can’t view video links at work. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/69 "2005-05-25T19:28:36Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Soon the only politically-aware Dopers left will be the shrieking morons who drove **Manhattan** away. The shitty part is that they’ll actually like it that way. **Manny** drove himself away, by being a vitriolic debater and getting the same back in return. I won’t miss him as he’s been for the past couple of years. I **do** miss the intelligent, witty guy he was five or six years ago. If the liberals on this board were to drive away **Sam Stone** or **Bricker** or **John Mace** , then we should hang our heads in shame. Someday I need to start a **Sam Stone** appreciation thread; he’s been holding up the conservative side of the dialogue here almost since the beginning, has never backed down from his principles, but has done so in a very rancor-free manner. If he’s made any enemies here, it’s their own fault. If you’re reading this, Sam, I’m lazy but the thought is there. A tip of the hat to ya. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/70 "2005-05-25T19:32:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If you’re reading this, Sam, I’m lazy but the thought is there. A tip of the hat to ya. Yeah, I try not to miss a chance to mention how goddamn cool **Sam Stone** is. He’s one of the smartest folks around here, and one of the best debaters, even if his politics are all wrong. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/71 "2005-05-25T19:32:45Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > Utter horseshit. He was denounced by the more balanced conservatives here with a frequency and a passion probably as great as those exhibited by the more balanced liberals when they’re denouncing such folk as ElvisL1ves. Frankly, I just don’t recall that happening. Again, could be a blind spot due to my own biases, but, no, doesn’t seem to match my own recollection. > [@](#): > > If millroyj was a “classic representative of the right” on these boards, then you’d better be prepared to claim such foaming idiots as Elvis and rjung “classic representatives of the left.” A false equivalence. However, when reading my words back, they don’t fit with my own model of the board, and he was an outlying dot on the right. I don’t honestly believe that he represented most of the political right here, and I retract that description. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/72 "2005-05-25T19:36:28Z")
Just to address the OP, and bypass all the Doper-bashing that seems to have sprung up today (this is, what, the third Pit thread on the matter already?): The SDMB does not skew to the left. It skews to the _truth._ The board only seems to “skew to the left” because conservatives hate the truth. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/73 "2005-05-25T19:36:41Z")
I really don’t have a dog in this fight, other than noting that, yes, the political threads inGD and the Pit have become less interesting. Maybe it’s because it’s a middle year, with the parties gearing up for '06. Maybe it has to do with the quality of the posting. One thing to remember is that a debate seldom leads the the opposition changing its mind. It’s done for the benefit of the audience. If **december** and **DtC** where having a shoutfest, neither will convince the other about the merits of his own arguments. Hopefully, but rather seldom, the arguments might lead to a reader of the thread to gain further insight. Sadly, these shoutfests and one line OPs don’t give much opportunity for that. Posting a link and adding a comment is not something that’d get you on the high school debate team, where these debates taking place outside a message board. The same can be said for drive-byes (bys?) both from the left and the right. I don’t egree with our esteemed mod, the prehensile one. Pitting this kind of posting will only clog up the drain in the Pit. I’m not saying that the pittees are trolls, because I don’t think so. However, may I suggest the same MO as with trolls - ignore the threads, be they from left or right. Don’t engage in the discourse, don’t enable what you perceive as nasty habits. It’s no fun to stand there shouting if it’s just an echo chamber. Finaly - something I see as a paradox, but maybe that’s just from my POV far from the US: Why do GOPers/conservatives/christian conservatives keep ranting about the “liberal media”; about how Hollywood is “corrupting the young” with “sex and violence” and mostly that the masonic, New England, liberal, pinko, crypto-commie, gun hating, abortion loving, atheist, gay hugging, anti-marriage, peacenik, womanizing, top secret cabal is selling the US to France. AFAIK, the “liberal” media is owned by major, very rich corporations, with CEOs and shareholders having a lot of money (and who are, in many cases, Republicans). Hollywood is hardly a paragon of peacenik values, and in any case, I find it hard to see how one can seriously say that the same secret cabal is promoting violence, being anti gun and pro peace. Where did this persecution complex and conspiracy theory come from to those who, traditionally, are the most well off in the American society? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/74 "2005-05-25T19:46:38Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > [Here is the story](http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/24/cheney.leahy/). As I understand it, while it was not a part of a speech, per se, it was a major breach of Senate etiquette that this happened on the senate floor. A more interesting questions would be to explore the particular filter that you are using for the news that you get, as this was a really big story at the time and it is pretty surprising that you did not know about it (especially given the context of the esoteric knowledge that you seem to posses about the gaffs of your political opponents). Now that I have the context, I do remember that. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/75 "2005-05-25T19:49:28Z")
OK. I’m not going to name names, but some of the so-called liberal “usual suspects”, despite wearing their ideology on their sleeves on occasion, count among their numbers at least a couple of the most eloquent and thoughtful posters in this entire forum. You may disagree-the-hell with them on occasion (I certainly have), but they are far from lacking substance to back up their arguments. Again, I call major, big-time, massive bullshit on this whole “you liberals are trolls” meme. It’s crap. It’s worse than crap; it’s an outright lie. Yeah, some of these guys do drive-bys on occasion, but so fucking what? And if they do it more than on occasion, bigger so-fucking-what. Tell them to STFU and get on with the debate. It’s rarely more complicated than that. Some of them are often, and all at least occasionally, willing to post at length, providing all the necessary cites, tenably, cogently, and with proper spelling and punctuation (gasp!), the lack of the latter seeming to chaffe the asses of some anal-retentives around here. I’m sorry, but if facts hurt, I say they quit your bitch-squealing and make the requisite substantive rebuttals. Throw a heaping helping of invective in if you like, or not, because it makes no difference whether you’re cuddly or prickly if what’s at stake is what’s being claimed is at stake, namely “the truth”. Otherwise: Bull and shit to this “oh, I’m being repressed” baloney. Chances are that’s a fat load of manure. From what I’ve seen you’re simply being challenged to lively debate, with no more or less gentility than you bring to it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/76 "2005-05-25T20:01:55Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > My belief is that the members of the right are becoming more and more quiet because they are finding it harder and harder to defend their political leaders. Ahem…Well, speaking just for myself of course, this member of the right has been becoming more and more quiet because the discourse here – after a year or more of many a heated exchange – has simply become tiresome and predictable. And frankly, now that the election is over I find that I’m not as emotionally invested in the things people argue about around here. Like one of the other posters said, many of the people I butt heads with here are the same people I like quite a lot in other forums, and whose knowledge in areas non-political is valuable. I would rather be friends with them there than for us to be calling each other names here. And like **Excalibre** said, the type of posting that goes on around here isn’t good for one’s blood pressure, either. In closing, I have to say kudos to **Excalibre**. I’ve toyed with the idea of mentioning this for some time, but of all the lefties around here you are certainly one of the ones for whom I have the highest regard. Your intelligence, level-headedness, and sharp sparring skills have caused me to regard you with both caution and admiration. I, too, hope you’ll be here awhile. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/77 "2005-05-25T20:05:36Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Because the Lefty Lunatic Fringe has been permitted to run wild of late. And yeah, it _is_ the left. I’m not going to cross my fingers and repeat the bullshit line that, “Both sides do it equally. We should all try to be nicer.” Look around: since **Brutus** , bless his absent heart, decided not to renew, and **milroyj** (resquiat in pacem) has left us, the political asshole crowd has become pretty damn one-sided. I’ve been wanting to post something very much like this myself. **milroyj** was banned and **Brutus** didn’t renew (thank the maker, when that guy spoke there were chimpanzees averting their eyes and pretending they weren’t related to him), and now the rightist side of the political fence looks a hell of a lot more appealing than the leftist side (no, I’m never ever going to call it “liberal”, since that means something completely different). The rightists have **Sam Stone** (ditto on that appreciation thread) and **Bricker** (though why he’s stonewalling me on that Iran invasion bet thing I’ll never know), and **Shodan** seems to get brighter and more pleasant with each post. What do we have? **rjung** , **Reeder** and **Diogenes the Cynic**. I doubt I’ll be turning conservative any day soon, but guys like **Sam Stone** and **Bricker** have certainly given me a whole new understanding of why they think like they do. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/78 "2005-05-25T20:10:39Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Again, I call major, big-time, massive bullshit on this whole “you liberals are trolls” meme. It’s crap. It’s worse than crap; it’s an outright lie. Careful there. No one’s used the t-word, and it’s not a good idea to start tilting the debate that way. I sure as hell hope you don’t think I meant that - why would I make accusations about liberals in general? I can name five cool (in both senses of the word), intelligent, rational, and altogether positive contributors to the intellectual calibre of the boards for each one of the ones I don’t like. That’s the point: I think that a certain few have managed to consistently hijack interesting discussions, use mean-spirited tactics to shout-down those who disagree, and often engage in contemptible intellectual dishonesty - to the point that they overshadow us decent liberals (which is a category I’d stick you in, easily, **Loopydude** ), and alienate the smarter, sharper conservatives - which impoverishes the experience of everyone interested in politics. When it comes to quality discussion, the few shrieking harpies (no matter what their politics may be) get in everyone’s way. I’m essentially here because I learn a lot, and I’ve learned a hell of a lot following some of the political threads. I just don’t like to see the folks whose posts I most eagerly anticipate slink away to avoid the mudslinging. ---
**Author:** ![Xploder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/a183cd/32.png) [@Xploder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xploder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/79 "2005-05-25T20:36:05Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > What percentage of posts about Bush will draw a warning? Do we make a rule specific to Bush, or a general rule about posting on the same topic more than x% of the time? Exactly…I mean, a general rule about posting on the same topic **most** of the time. Like so: if all of your threads are devoted to bashing Bush then you really don’t need to start a new one as soon as the last one drops off the page, see what I mean? To post about the **SAME** thing over and over and over again until everyone on the board sees you as nothing more than a one trick pony with a personal ax to grind is pretty ridiculous for a board that is supposedly devoted to ferreting out the truth about things. Yes, the reasons why the war started were wrong. Yes, Bush is an asshole. Yes, perhaps the war itself is even illegal as I don’t recall Congress ever declaring war on Iraq. Fine. You’ve made your point. But to bring up the same things and the same bitches and moans about it again and again serves absolutely no purpose. All it does is make people see you as a complete and utter moron. Now you know that I don’t mean **you Giraffe** , but the idiots on **both** sides of the political spectrum that just can’t seem to understand what I just typed. They aren’t helping their cause and no amount of shrill screaming and posturing and sticking their fingers in their ears so as to not hear opposing viewpoints will either. Whew…that was one long sentence. Makes me REALLY regret being offline for so damn long. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457/80 "2005-05-25T20:40:36Z")
**Diogenes the Cynic** , can go overboard. But I very strongly disagree with any argument that paints his participation here as primarily partisan or harpy-like. He’s one of the names I recognize most, so my defense of him isn’t meant to be a slight or attack on anyone else. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-does-the-board-skew-left/305457.md?page=5)