# So factual jr modding is OK now? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512 "2014-07-19T04:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/21 "2014-07-19T18:06:27Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I don’t see any “free pass” here. I see the person who was doing junior modding called on it (no Warning, just a friendly reminder, along with a friendly reminder not to jump into personal insults.) I saw the friendly reminder for what it was and quit what some others were perceiving as “junior modding”. To those that are claiming that I never get called on anything? I’ve got two recent official warnings and a handful of unofficial "knock-it-off"s to my record that say otherwise, so can we just put that little rumor to rest? ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/22 "2014-07-19T18:21:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > To those that are claiming that I never get called on anything? I’ve got two recent official warnings and a handful of unofficial "knock-it-off"s to my record that say otherwise, so can we just put that little rumor to rest? Wait, really? Have you thought about maybe actually, I don’t know, _modifying_ your behavior? Out of respect for your former colleagues, if nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/23 "2014-07-19T19:05:29Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > So, if this column is "why did **Colibri** scold **Fenris** for “junior modding” but not scold **Czarcasm** : the suggestion of a forum change is not, to my mind, “junior modding” so much as making a suggestion. Putting something in the wrong forum is not (and has never been) a rules violation. The accusation of “derailing,” on the other hand, _is_ junior modding, since derailing can be a rules violation. In short, if someone thought that **Czarcasm** was derailing the thread, the appropriate response is to hit the REPORT button (little ! in red triangle in upper right corner of post) and let the moderators decide. This sums up my viewpoint pretty well. A suggestion that a thread might better be placed in another forum is not, in my view, junior modding. People make such suggestions all the time. I don’t recall ever having issued a note for such a remark. On the other hand, **Fenris** was essentially giving instructions to other posters on how they should behave in the forum. Given that this was also clearly a jab at **Czarcasm** (despite **Fenris’s** disclaimer), it deserved a note. > [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Further comments: > (1) Being belligerent isn’t a rules violation. While I agree that **Czarcasm** might have been belligerent in that thread, he did not cross the line of meriting Mod intervention (although if it had continued, he was getting close.) **Czarcasm** was rather aggressive in the thread, but so are many of our other long-term GQ posters. At some point, I may request that someone dial it back, but I didn’t think **Czarcasm’s** posts had crossed the line at that point. > [@](#): > > (2) Being disruptive, well it depends on the situation and the extent of disruption: there’s often a fine line between “an interesting tangent” and a hi-jack. And that’s the point. The line is fine and the decision needs to made by a moderator, not by other posters (“jr modding”). I don’t usually find that asking an OP to clarify his terms or what he exactly he is asking is out of line in GQ. Again, many other posters do this, including me. In this case, the intent of the OP was not completely clear. He put the question in GQ, which presumed he wanted a factual answer. On the other hand, he spoke of his “thoughts” on the matter, which presumed that he was expressing his opinion. So seeking clarifications of those issues was reasonable. I didn’t see **Czarcasm’s** posts as being particularly out of line in this respect. As it is, I think the thread at this point has turned into a interesting discussion of the factual aspects of the question. The OP, however, has not returned after my posts to clarify exactly what he was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/24 "2014-07-19T19:11:30Z")
I thought we all decided there was a **Czarcasm** exception to that rule? You know, like a cop not giving another cop’s wife a ticket for something that anyone else would have gotten a ticket for. I might have been wrong though. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/25 "2014-07-19T19:17:51Z")
Oh come on, it’s never been regarded as jr modding to suggest that someone has posted in the wrong forum. **Czarcasm** was plainly within the rules, **Fenris** , with his accusation of derailing, wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/26 "2014-07-19T19:44:55Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Wait, really? _Nag_ belongs in the pit? Nag? It’s one step below needle and one step above bother. Any friends of Randall Munroe around (won’t answer my calls). There’s a cartoon here. The thread as well might inspire. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/27 "2014-07-19T19:46:08Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I might have been wrong though. You’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/28 "2014-07-19T19:46:40Z")
How about Fenris and Czarcasm arm wrestle for it? ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/29 "2014-07-19T20:20:47Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I thought we all decided there was a **Czarcasm** exception to that rule? You know, like a cop not giving another cop’s wife a ticket for something that anyone else would have gotten a ticket for. > > I might have been wrong though. That’s not only fuckin’ DEAD WRONG, but offensive. PLUS, haven’t I said several times: this is NOT the place for a “pile on **Czarcasm** ” thread. You want to make nasty comments like that about another poster, go to the Pit (where I don’t have to pay any attention to them.) I considered issuing an Official Warning for both (a) personal insult directed at another poster, and (b) failure to heed a moderator’s repeated instruction. However, I’m going to be generous… for now. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/30 "2014-07-19T22:21:59Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > . . . we don’t want a seventeen volume lawbook for moderators, . . . What this board seems to need, perhaps, is a seventeen volume lawbook for Moderators Emeriti. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > To those that are claiming that I never get called on anything? I’ve got two recent official warnings and a handful of unofficial "knock-it-off"s to my record that say otherwise, so can we just put that little rumor to rest? Cite! Cite!! Cite!!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/31 "2014-07-19T23:53:54Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > You want to make nasty comments like that about another poster, go to the Pit (where I don’t have to pay any attention to them.) I considered issuing an Official Warning for both (a) personal insult directed at another poster, and (b) failure to heed a moderator’s repeated instruction. However, I’m going to be generous… for now. How is that nasty comment about Czarcasm? (I could certainly see how a moderator could feel insulted by the viewpoint, but that’s true of a lot of what gets posted in ATMB.). Moreover, how is saying someone gets special treatment a personal insult? 😕 I don’t agree with Morgenstern at all, but your response is quite confusing. It’s also becoming increasingly unclear how one is supposed to ask about a specific modding situation involving another poster without running afoul of the ever-shifting invisible boundaries of civility in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![donkeyoatey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@donkeyoatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donkeyoatey)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/32 "2014-07-20T00:40:19Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > That’s not only fuckin’ DEAD WRONG, but offensive. > > PLUS, haven’t I said several times: this is NOT the place for a “pile on **Czarcasm** ” thread. You want to make nasty comments like that about another poster, go to the Pit (where I don’t have to pay any attention to them.) I considered issuing an Official Warning for both (a) personal insult directed at another poster, and (b) failure to heed a moderator’s repeated instruction. However, I’m going to be generous… for now. Wow! This place has gone to hell in a handbasket. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/33 "2014-07-20T01:08:26Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > I apologize if I didn’t express myself clearly. (Can I use the excuse of it being still early in the morn?) No harm, no foul. Thanks for clarifying. I don’t agree with you that C’s comments weren’t disruptive enough for mod intervention (I’ll note that it certainly didn’t merit a warning but given that the OP had came in and explained he wasn’t presenting the info as fact and the spirit of his question was still intact, a dial-it-back seemed in order). And yes suggestions of a forum change are common enough but in this case, given Czarcasms previous contributions to the thread, it appeared he was using it to further shame the OP. That being said I’ve said my piece and you’ve said yours, this isn’t a hill I’m interested in dying on. I just think GQ should be a more civil place than that - technically against the rules or not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/34 "2014-07-20T03:45:57Z")
Rather than discuss a particular poster, may I gently suggest that moderators consider the value of a GQ post? If someone is responding to a question in an informative, factual, accurate manner, then it’s legit to cut them a little bit (not a lot, a little) of slack in other ways. But if someone is not contributing anything useful, just sniping from the sidelines or making lame jokes or asking pedantic questions, less slack is necessary. Specifically, if someone engages in this sort of unproductive behavior, and the thread tilts off-course thereby, I’d appreciate it if the mods would step in and smack down the unproductive poster. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/35 "2014-07-20T06:26:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Rather than discuss a particular poster, may I gently suggest that moderators consider the value of a GQ post? If someone is responding to a question in an informative, factual, accurate manner, then it’s legit to cut them a little bit (not a lot, a little) of slack in other ways. But if someone is not contributing anything useful, just sniping from the sidelines or making lame jokes or asking pedantic questions, less slack is necessary. Specifically, if someone engages in this sort of unproductive behavior, and the thread tilts off-course thereby, I’d appreciate it if the mods would step in and smack down the unproductive poster. I’m wary of curbing so-called pedantic questions. I think some of them can be characterized as _clarifying_. And if they truly are overly narrow, it is possible to address them as such. Snipes and lame jokes are another matter. Though wisecracks have their place. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/36 "2014-07-20T08:55:25Z")
> [@donkeyoatey](#): > > Wow! This place has gone to hell in a handbasket. Wow, you just insulted every moderator and member at once! So that’s like, what, 161,896\* warnings under these new guidelines? \*and counting ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/37 "2014-07-20T15:14:57Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > How about Fenris and Czarcasm arm wrestle for it? I got $5 on Fenris! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/38 "2014-07-20T15:38:33Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > I got $5 on Fenris! Well, sure. Dude has freakish Popeye arms. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/39 "2014-07-20T16:01:57Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Wait, really? _Nag_ belongs in the pit? Nag? It’s one step below needle and one step above bother. Oh, good, that way we don’t have to Pit Pooh. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/40 "2014-07-20T16:30:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Rather than discuss a particular poster, may I gently suggest that moderators consider the value of a GQ post? If someone is responding to a question in an informative, factual, accurate manner, then it’s legit to cut them a little bit (not a lot, a little) of slack in other ways. But if someone is not contributing anything useful, just sniping from the sidelines or making lame jokes or asking pedantic questions, less slack is necessary. Specifically, if someone engages in this sort of unproductive behavior, and the thread tilts off-course thereby, I’d appreciate it if the mods would step in and smack down the unproductive poster. I do do this on occasion, but I tend to allow a lot of leeway. As I said, many other posters do this sort of thing. I generally allow questioning the premise of a vague or non-factual OP, and in fact do so myself. It’s mainly when the posts become insulting to the poster himself, rather than simply directed at the nature of the question, that I think intervention is required. In my view, in this particular thread **Czarcasm’s** questions weren’t out of line, and in fact served to clarify the question and elicit a number of factual posts by other posters. Trying to clarify a question does not in my view qualify as “derailing” a thread. You can’t really derail a discussion until the intent of the OP is clear. **Daz’s** responses to **Czarcasm** indicated he knew that the statements in his OP were non-factual, in which case **Czarcasm’s** suggestion of a move to IMHO or GD was appropriate. However, **Daz** failed to indicate that he was actually seeking a debate of his opinions, even in response to my offer to move it to another forum, so I left it in GQ. **LHoD** , I will note that your response to **Czarcasm** ,[“Because Wikipedia is hard for some folks to find,”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17557481&postcount=8) was a snarky as any of his posts. If I were going to issue a note to **Czarcasm** for the tone of his posts, I would have had to include you in the instructions to dial it back (as well as **Labrador Deceiver** , which might actually have deserved a warning.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512.md?page=3)