# So factual jr modding is OK now? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 19, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512 "2014-07-19T04:42:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/61 "2014-07-21T15:23:30Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > MODERATOR BLOWS WHISTLE FOR ATTENTION: > You have been alerted, several times, that this is NOT a “pile on Czarcasm” thread. If you want to talk about him, then go to the Pit or some other forum where it’s appropriate. This is a thread about a moderator decision to give a “friendly reminder” to one poster and not another. The reasons for which have been explained, several times. You will NOT issue personal insults in this forum. Didn’t I say, twice above, NOT to do that??? Third time’s the charm, and will result in an Official Warning. Congrats, this post wins the “least connected to reality” prize of the day. > > Meanwhile, I have asked **Czarcasm** not to post in this thread any longer. (This was a personal request, not a moderator instruction.) The thread will remain open so long as it is about moderator decision; it will be closed (with Warnings) the minute that it’s used to poke at **Czarcasm** (or anyone else.) You do realize that you instruct other people not to do things in this post then turn around and do them in the same post. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/62 "2014-07-21T15:23:32Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > You have been alerted, several times, that this is NOT a “pile on Czarcasm” thread. If you want to talk about him, then go to the Pit or some other forum where it’s appropriate. With all due respect, **Dex** , I have seen y’all pull that card _way_ too many times. If the thread is about how a poster is treated by mods, we can’t discuss that without discussing the poster. Logically, you should know that. “Take it to the pit” is a dodge by y’all. It is a refusal to discuss the poster in question, be it **Czarcasm** , or somebody else. I have seen that dodge by the mods way, _way_ too often. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/63 "2014-07-21T15:27:04Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Congrats, this post wins the “least connected to reality” prize of the day. Charming as ever Dex. With you as our role-model courtesy, it’s no wonder ATMB is so civilized. That said, if you’d bothered to actually read the thread in question, I was told that this post > [@Psychopaths](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/psychopaths/693392/25): > > You’re best off disregarding any poster who simply posts lame-ass attempts at Socratic questions and/or nitpicky questions as a substitute for actually replying. It derails the thread and you can’t actually win, because no matter what your answer, there’ll just be more lame-ass questions. was “junior modding” because the “you’re best of disregarding” stuff and stating the obvious truth that responding to a neverending string of nitpicky lame-ass rhetorical questions will derail the thread is somehow “giving instructions to other posters”. Please. :rolleyes: I can dig up dozens of threads where people were told to beware of other posters pet issues. Newbies being warned about various posters regarding religion or regarding The Amazing Randi, or about bad dreams masquerading as near-death experiences. But apparently this is _JUST NOW_ junior modding, despite years of it being ok. I’m not complaining about the mod-note: I knew that the snark-level of that post was on the line for GQ (I thought it was on the OK side of the line since I was talking about the posts and not the poster, but hey, fair enough, I guessed which way the wind was blowing that day). But there’s no possible way to squint and make that post into “junior modding” by any definition that’s existed before or since (since you claim that LHoD doing _exactly_ the same thing might garner the same warning was “disconnected from reality”) ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/64 "2014-07-21T16:09:00Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > Meanwhile, I have asked **Czarcasm** not to post in this thread any longer. (This was a personal request, not a moderator instruction.) The thread will remain open so long as it is about moderator decision; it will be closed (with Warnings) the minute that it’s used to poke at **Czarcasm** (or anyone else.) Ironic in that it was **Czarcasm** ’s poking at someone that started all this. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/65 "2014-07-21T16:25:54Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > The thread will remain open so long as it is about moderator decision OK. I’m not one who usually chimes in on these discussions. All the moderating in the original thread and this one has been bullshit. This is not a ‘poke at **Czarcasm** ,’ but \*you \*have allowed him to fuck up a decent GQ thread while blaming others, and then continue the crap in here. What you call insults aren’t, what you deny is junior modding is. What you’ve called ‘piling on **Czarcasm** ’ is questioning _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/66 "2014-07-21T16:29:00Z")
> [@bup](#): > > OK. I’m not one who usually chimes in on these discussions. I’m glad you chose to do so now. That post sums things up nicely. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/67 "2014-07-21T17:02:39Z")
> [@bup](#): > > OK. I’m not one who usually chimes in on these discussions. > > All the moderating in the original thread and this one has been bullshit. This is not a ‘poke at **Czarcasm** ,’ but \*you \*have allowed him to fuck up a decent GQ thread while blaming others, and then continue the crap in here. What you call insults aren’t, what you deny is junior modding is. What you’ve called ‘piling on **Czarcasm** ’ is questioning _you_. Hear, hear. In a thread questioning whether or not certain posters receive preferential treatment, Dex’s replies have proven the point that yes in fact they do, and that we can go fuck ourselves if we have a problem with it. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/68 "2014-07-21T17:22:06Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > MODERATOR BLOWS WHISTLE FOR ATTENTION: > You have been alerted, several times, that this is NOT a “pile on Czarcasm” thread. If you want to talk about him, then go to the Pit or some other forum where it’s appropriate. This is a thread about a moderator decision to give a “friendly reminder” to one poster and not another. The reasons for which have been explained, several times. You will NOT issue personal insults in this forum. Didn’t I say, twice above, NOT to do that??? Third time’s the charm, and will result in an Official Warning. Congrats, this post wins the “least connected to reality” prize of the day. Methinks the moderator doth protest too much. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/69 "2014-07-21T17:25:59Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > You will NOT issue personal insults in this forum. Didn’t I say, twice above, NOT to do that??? Third time’s the charm, and will result in an Official Warning. You’re setting a standard of insulting in this thread that doesn’t match any of the previous standards of insults that I’ve been familiar with in fifteen years of posting on this board. But: your board, your rules; I’ll abide by it. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/70 "2014-07-21T17:37:29Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > You will NOT issue personal insults in this forum. Didn’t I say, twice above, NOT to do that??? Third time’s the charm, and will result in an Official Warning. Dex, please hear me when I tell you this. I’m not trying to play gotcha, I’m not trying to prove you wrong, I’m not trying to argue for either side of this issue. But you’re giving people instructions with regards to personal insults that simply don’t make sense. Once upon a time, the rule against personal insults was quite simple: don’t call people names outside of the Pit. Now, in ATMB, I honestly haven’t the faintest idea what posts you will deem as insults and which you won’t. You’re of course entitled to mod ATMB however you see fit. However, I urge you to at least come up with a more clear description of what behavior you believe to be against the rules so that posters can discuss moderation issues involving other posters without risking warnings. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/71 "2014-07-21T20:39:13Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Once upon a time, the rule against personal insults was quite simple: don’t call people names outside of the Pit. No, sorry, but that was never the standard. The rule was don’t INSULT people outside the Pit, and it continues to be such. “Personal insults” are NOT limited to name-calling. Attributing motives to a person can be another form of personal insult. Thus, saying that a person has such a “great desire to win a nitpicker prize” that they are “blinded” is about the person, and an insult. (That’s what **Left Hand** said about **Czarcasm**. > [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > You’re setting a standard of insulting in this thread that doesn’t match any of the previous standards of insults that I’ve been familiar with in fifteen years of posting on this board. Sorry that you’re not familiar with it, but what I said is perfectly consistent with what we’ve always moderated. And please note that I said was not about **Fenris** , but about his post – and that’s always been one of our clear distinctions. One can comment about the post, but about the poster (outside the Pit.) So, the comparison of what I said to what **Left Hand** said is … misplaced. Another aspect of “personal insult” is when something is thinly veiled – e.g., an insult directed against “anyone who does X” when it’s clear that there is only one person in the thread who does X. Second clarification: The OP (as I understand it) was asking why one person got a “friendly reminder” and another person didn’t. So, just to repeat: (1) The person who was given the reminder used a thinly-veiled insult. (2) “Junior modding” is accusing another poster of a rules violation. (a) Suggesting that something is in the wrong forum is NOT a rules violation. (b) Being annoying is NOT a rules violation. (If someone is being so annoying as to cross the point into trolling, that decision should be made by a moderator, not another poster.) (c) Saying that someone is “derailing” a thread could be a rules violation (depends on circumstances) but is always something that should be decided by a moderator. **Colibri** therefore gave a “friendly reminder” to **Fenris** , for violating (1) with a thinly-veiled personal insult, and (2)(c) for accusing **Czarcasm** of derailing the thread. He did NOT give any “friendly reminder” to **Czarcasm** , because **Czarcasm** did NOT break any rules: he may have been annoying (that’s not a rules violation) and he may have suggested a forum change (that’s not a rules violation) so there’s no reason for saying anything to him. Now, I think that answers the OP, and that answer was given many many posts ago. The rest of this has become “Yeah, but **Czarcasm** was really, REALLY being annoying.” The answer is: so what? That’s not against the rules. Therefore, **Colibri** did not make any comment to **Czarcasm** in that thread. > [@bup](#): > > This is not a ‘poke at Czarcasm,’ but you have allowed him to fuck up a decent GQ thread while blaming others, and then continue the crap in here. What you call insults aren’t, what you deny is junior modding is. What you’ve called ‘piling on Czarcasm’ is questioning you. I hope that his post has clarified for you: fucking up a thread is NOT necessarily a rules violation (and it’s arguable whether that was **Czarcasm** did). **Colibri** , as moderator on the spot, clearly didn’t think so. f you want to open a thread about **Czarcasm** being annoying, do it in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/72 "2014-07-21T20:43:12Z")
POST SCRIPT: I would like to close this thread. If I do so, there will outcry that I “had the last word” so I’m issuing notice that I will close the thread in a few hours, and I do not anticipate posting here again. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/73 "2014-07-21T20:46:41Z")
I still don’t understand why saying “Poster X gets an extra break because of special circumstance Y” is insulting to Poster X. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/74 "2014-07-21T20:49:07Z")
**Dex** , I suggest you keep this thread open. Your actions are being criticized, don’t take the coward’s way out. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/75 "2014-07-21T20:49:53Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > MODERATOR BLOWS WHISTLE FOR ATTENTION: > You have been alerted, several times, that this is NOT a “pile on Czarcasm” thread. If you want to talk about him, then go to the Pit or some other forum where it’s appropriate. Except that The Pit is not allowed to be used to discuss threads like this that focus on Moderator actions because ATMB is designated as the place to go to discuss Moderator actions except that now you’ve instructed all Dopers that discussing Moderator action may not take place in ATMB but instead must take place in The Pit except that The Pit is not allowed to be used to discuss threads like this when the focus involves Moderator action because that is what ATMB is for except that now you’ve instructed all Dopers that discussing Moderator action may not take place in ATMB but instead must take place in The Pit except that The Pit is not allowed to be used to discuss threads like this when the focus involves Moderator action. Nicely played, **Dex**. Nicely played. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/76 "2014-07-21T20:50:42Z")
So nitpickery is not an insult but nitpickery+blinded=insult and unconnected from reality is not? I really don’t think I’m unusual in thinking that "Congrats, this post wins the “least connected to reality” prize of the day. " is far more insulting than “Your desire to win the nitpickery prize apparently blinded you to the actual claim.” ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/77 "2014-07-21T20:50:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I still don’t understand why saying “Poster X gets an extra break because of special circumstance Y” is insulting to Poster X. > > Regards, > Shodan Funnily, it’s an “insult” that probably wouldn’t fly in the pit, either. Because you can’t pit moderator decisions, which is really what such a comment is bringing attention to. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/78 "2014-07-21T21:00:52Z")
> [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](#): > > No, sorry, but that was never the standard. The rule was don’t INSULT people outside the Pit, and it continues to be such. “Personal insults” are NOT limited to name-calling. Attributing motives to a person can be another form of personal insult. Thus, saying that a person has such a “great desire to win a nitpicker prize” that they are “blinded” is about the person, and an insult. (That’s what **Left Hand** said about **Czarcasm**. As I said, you are welcome to moderate however you see fit. I would argue that using such a broad definition of personal insult is a huge mistake, though, and one which absolutely does not conform to how many forums on the board have been moderated in the past or present. (I’m sure I can dig up several dozen links without leaving the first page of GD, and I say that having not read GD in months.) Moreover, I know you’re annoyed at the kerfuffle and you want people to stop doing the thing that’s annoying you. But I urge you to think through the consequences of what you’re proposing. If the other mods actually used your definition, people would be able to spew ignorance in GD all day long and good posters would have to tiptoe ever so carefully lest they imply that these posts were motivated by ignorance or that the poster was blinded by their own ideology. Cecil would be banned almost immediately if he tried to post under these rules. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/79 "2014-07-21T21:04:31Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Cecil would be banned almost immediately if he tried to post under these rules. Hey, if you want to talk about Cecil that way, take it to the pit! ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512/80 "2014-07-21T21:06:39Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > Cecil would be banned almost immediately if he tried to post under these rules. Yes, yes, we all know: The books are not The SDMB and The SDMB is not the books. Still and all, we must know our provenance, mustn’t we? Read the first 50 pages of the first The Straight Dope book. And tell us that he wouldn’t have been banned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-factual-jr-modding-is-ok-now/693512.md?page=5)