# So for for the Dutch city it should be "the The Hague"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034 "2015-09-20T23:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/1 "2015-09-20T23:49:26Z")
I was thinking about The Hague, the Dutch city that is home to the U.N.’s International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court. All the time I thought that it was just Hague, but in reality it is “The Hague” - Den Haag. So it should be really correct to write that the international court is in _ **the** _ The Hague? Many headlines in the American press do go like: “The court at The Hague found…”, no “the”, but I see places in Holland were they do add the article to the proper city name that is “The Hague”: [http://www.visitthehague.com/en](http://www.visitthehague.com/en) > [@](#): > > Welcome at the The Hague Convention Bureau. [http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Netherlands/Provincie\_Zuid\_Holland/The\_Hague-457595/Transportation-The\_Hague-Public\_transport-BR-1.html](http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Netherlands/Provincie_Zuid_Holland/The_Hague-457595/Transportation-The_Hague-Public_transport-BR-1.html) > [@](#): > > The following local buses serve the The Hague Centraal Station: ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/2 "2015-09-21T00:16:50Z")
In your first link the “the” is before “The Hague Convention Bureau” not the city. Every single one of the uses of The Hague in that second link that I looked at did not have a doubled “the.” I couldn’t find it specifically in a style guide, but unless it is a special case, I would never do so. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/3 "2015-09-21T00:19:29Z")
Well, we don’t say “the The Bronx” now, do we? ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/4 "2015-09-21T00:22:58Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > So it should be really correct to write that the international court is in _ **the** _ The Hague? I don’t get why it could be. If the international court was constructed it Saskatoon, we would not say “the international court is in the Saskatoon” – just “the international court is in Saskatoon”. Replace Saskatoon with “The Hague” and you get just the one “the”, not two. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/5 "2015-09-21T00:40:30Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, we don’t say “the The Bronx” now, do we? Or “the The Netherlands.” Or, for that matter, something like “The The Beatles were an influential band.” When “the” is included in part of the name, it usually gets dropped for the uncapitalized definite article when appropriate (or sometimes the capitalized “the” that is part of the name remains; either way, there’s just one “the.”) The first link where it says “Welcome at the The Hague Convention Convention Bureau” just sounds like badly rendered English. First, no English speaker would say “Welcome at.” Second, no native would double up on the “the” there, either. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/6 "2015-09-21T00:48:56Z")
Let’s just all called **'s-Gravenhage**. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/7 "2015-09-21T00:58:58Z")
Likewise, in America, official documents of a city often say “City of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_” on the letterhead ([example](http://www.halcyonsolar.com/uploads/images/City-of-Redding-Commendation-Letter-screenshot-thumbnail.png)) or on the [signs](http://pasoroblesguide.com/uploads/article/1289459927.jpg) you see as you enter the city. But some cities include the word “City” as part of the official city name (e.g., Kansas City, Carson City, Salt Lake City). Would their letterhead (or city entrance signs) say “City of Carson City” or “City of Salt Lake City”. Only in bad translations, probably. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/8 "2015-09-21T01:11:34Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Well, we don’t say “the The Bronx” now, do we? We don’t say “the New York” either. Why would you want to add “the” in front of a city name? MOMA is in New York. MOMA is not in the New York. Unless you’re from LA, and you put “the” in front of everything, like freeway numbers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/9 "2015-09-21T01:16:16Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Would their letterhead (or city entrance signs) say “City of Carson City” or “City of Salt Lake City”. Only in bad translations, probably. Kansas City, Missouri’s [official website](http://kcmo.gov/) has “City of Kansas City” five times on just the front page. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/10 "2015-09-21T01:21:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We don’t say “the New York” either. > > Why would you want to add “the” in front of a city name? MOMA is in New York. MOMA is not in the New York. Because there are some placenames like that. Like Amsterdam is in the Netherlands. Yankee Stadium is in the Bronx. And there are several American cities that begin with "the " (The Dalles, OR; The Woodlands, TX; etc. And, of course, all the Spanish place names that start with “La” or “Las” or “Los” or whatever, if you want to count them.) ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/11 "2015-09-21T01:29:49Z")
The Dalles, Oregon is another such named town or city. > [@](#): > > In addition to The Hague and The Bronx, there are a few other minor English placenames that still include a definite article, including The Plains, Virginia, and The Dalles, Oregon. > ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/12 "2015-09-21T01:44:21Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Kansas City, Missouri’s [official website](http://kcmo.gov/) has “City of Kansas City” five times on just the front page. 🙂 In any case I do agree with most of the posters then, “The Hague” it is and no extra “the” is needed even if the city is called like that, although I have a nit here: > [@pulykamell](#): > > Or “the The Netherlands.” Or, for that matter, something like “The The Beatles were an influential band.” When “the” is included in part of the name, it usually gets dropped for the uncapitalized definite article when appropriate (or sometimes the capitalized “the” that is part of the name remains; either way, there’s just one “the.”) The first link where it says “Welcome at the The Hague Convention Convention Bureau” just sounds like badly rendered English. First, no English speaker would say “Welcome at.” Second, no native would double up on the “the” there, either. Google does call it just Netherlands. https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.2129919,5.2793703&z=7&output=embed&dg=ntvb&q=Netherlands&cid=95403460537838548291764523207483001503 The Hague is just The Hague. 🙂 I think I got to wonder because I thought all these years that the city was just called Hague. https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=52.0711951,4.3125966&z=11&output=embed&dg=ntvb&q=The%2BHague,%2BNetherlands ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/13 "2015-09-21T01:56:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Because there are some placenames like that. Like Amsterdam is in the Netherlands. Yankee Stadium is in the Bronx. And there are several American cities that begin with "the " (The Dalles, OR; The Woodlands, TX; etc. And, of course, all the Spanish place names that start with “La” or “Las” or “Los” or whatever, if you want to count them.) Go back and read the OP. He wants to put another “the” in front of “The Hague”. I ask why? We don’t put “the” in front of city names, so why would “The Hague” need an extra “the” when referring to it. ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/14 "2015-09-21T02:04:24Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Likewise, in America, official documents of a city often say “City of \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_” on the letterhead ([example](http://www.halcyonsolar.com/uploads/images/City-of-Redding-Commendation-Letter-screenshot-thumbnail.png)) or on the [signs](http://pasoroblesguide.com/uploads/article/1289459927.jpg) you see as you enter the city. But some cities include the word “City” as part of the official city name (e.g., Kansas City, Carson City, Salt Lake City). > > Would their letterhead (or city entrance signs) say “City of Carson City” or “City of Salt Lake City”. Only in bad translations, probably. “City of Carson” is the only reasonable way to put it, according to my gut. I remember in Boardwalk Empire, Nucky Thompson refers to the “City of Atlantic.” Makes total sense. But the Atlantic City website refers to the “City of Atlantic City,” which makes me want to go over there and have a word with their City Council City. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/15 "2015-09-21T02:27:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Go back and read the OP. He wants to put another “the” in front of “The Hague”. I ask why? We don’t put “the” in front of city names, so why would “The Hague” need an extra “the” when referring to it. Ah, my apologies. I misunderstood your point. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/16 "2015-09-21T02:33:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > 🙂 > > Google does call it just Netherlands. True, on its own or in a dateline, it’s just “Netherlands.” I guess that wasn’t the best example, because context would dictate whether the “the” is used or not. (Just like you would say “Chicago is in the United States of America” instead of “Chicago is in United States of America” in the same way you would say “Amsterdam is in the Netherlands” instead of “Amsterdam is in Netherlands.” (Or at least that’s the natural way for me to say it.) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/17 "2015-09-21T02:49:59Z")
I’ll look into it after I get back from my trip to the La Brea Tar Pits. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/18 "2015-09-21T03:01:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > …And, of course, all the Spanish place names that start with “La” or “Las” or “Los” or whatever, if you want to count them.) Las Vegas (the meadows) Los Angeles (the angels) Los Alamos (the poplars) Las Cruces (the crosses) El Centro (the center) El Cajon (the big box) El Dorado (the golden one) El Paso (the pass) El Segundo (the second) La Joya (the jewel) La Mesa (the table) La Plata (the silver) La Villa (the village) La Puente (the bridge) La Vista (the view) La Junta (the junction) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/19 "2015-09-21T03:03:14Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The Dalles, Oregon is another such named town or city. There’s a city named The Woodlands in Texas. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034/20 "2015-09-21T03:09:43Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’ll look into it after I get back from my trip to the La Brea Tar Pits. Which, of course, translates to “The The Tar Tar Pits” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-for-for-the-dutch-city-it-should-be-the-the-hague/732034.md?page=2)