# so half of oregon and some of ca wants to become "greater idaho"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 20, 2020, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221 "2020-02-20T08:25:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/41 "2020-02-21T15:55:34Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > …I keep reading the Oregonian’s webpage and have not seen anything about this. Which is somewhat surprising; I figured they’d do a story about it. [it was a lead story on Monday](https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2020/02/ballot-initiative-effort-to-move-eastern-oregon-counties-to-idaho-gains-momentum-leader-calls-it-peaceful-revolution.html), then quickly dropped down to be replaced by more reality-based news. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/42 "2020-02-21T17:01:45Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Take away the farm subsidies and see how much they love the “rural lifestyle”. Yeah, living the independent life with their hands out for the taxpayers’ dime and bitching about the damn gubmint. And yet, the global corporate system is destroying the Earth. IMO we need to get back to local products including local foodsources. I’m not talking about factory farming, I mean community farming. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/43 "2020-02-21T17:27:31Z")
I agree the idea is stupid and likely a motivator is increasing Red state strength at the national level. But, let’s take a look at the objections: _Rural counties have become increasingly outraged by laws coming out of the Oregon Legislature that threaten our livelihoods, our industries, our wallet, our gun rights, and our values…_ The linked article does not really go into details, so this is speculation on my part - as California also has a deep urban/rural divide, and where I live it’s easy to see the urban/rural interface close-up: - Livelihoods, industries. I can sorta see the issues here if the rural counties of eastern Oregon are not getting the attention they need because city-dwellers have no visibility into the issues they are facing. I believe eastern Oregon is a large wheat-growing region and if the wheat farmers there need improvements to infrastructure to get their product to market and the OR legislature is only spending money on freeways in Portland, I can see how that may chap some hides. Also, logging restrictions made at the State house far away from the communities reliant on logging. Again, just speculating. - Wallet. This is probably around their tax dollars not getting spend on things they want and need. I am sure the conservative dog whistle around spending tax dollars on healthcare for immigrants and welfare queens is triggering this as well. - Gun rights. I speculate this goes along with the feeling liberals controlling the OR legislature are supporting more restrictive gun purchase laws. Rural communities are more likely to have people who hunt or target shoot or whatever, and are NRA members who align with their strategy of squashing any discussion about more restrictions on guns. The folks in the urban areas see it differently in that guns are often a key component of crime and seek to curb access. - Values. This is just clear regionalism, likely with a touch of racism and fear of outsiders telling them what they can and cannot do. I am sure religion is playing a role in this as well. All this is just guessing on my part - just trying to see their issues from their angle. Anyone who lives in Oregon feel free to add or correct my impressions. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/44 "2020-02-21T18:42:08Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > As far as I could tell from googling, there are only three pot shops in Ontario OR. But I could be wrong, because it was difficult to tell whether certain shops sold recreational or just medical. But even three would be far more than adequate for that town. Much smaller Huntington, thirty miles up the road, which Ontario took most of the Idaho trade from, has two of them. Which is two more than that town needs. I expect at least one of those will close. All Oregon weed shops sell both medical and rec because the only difference is that if you have an OMMP card you don’t pay the taxes and can purchase a bit more at one time. What doesn’t show up on a Google search is the number of CBD and recreational cannabis farms in the area–in Huntington there’s a good sized pot farm right in town about two blocks from one of the dispensaries and about six blocks from the other–Huntington basically exists because it has the local high school and is down the way from a good sized state park with 125 or so camp sites so no, neither of those dispensaries is likely to go out of business any time soon, especially as there’s a business loop exit and entrance to I-84. There’s one tiny country store with a single gas pump, one diner but two dispensaries and a big pot farm, that pretty much sums up Huntington. That little bend of the Snake River through there has quite a few cannabis farms and according to the lady at the country store, everybody out there grows their own as well. Because of Idaho, mostly. Huntington is just down the road from a bridge over to the Payette area so it gets a lot of Idahoans who don’t want to deal with I-84 into Ontario due to their staties being very diligent about stopping people who might have a gram or two of the Devil’s Lettuce in their car. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/45 "2020-02-21T19:01:25Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > And yet, the global corporate system is destroying the Earth. IMO we need to get back to local products including local foodsources. I’m not talking about factory farming, I mean community farming. OK, live off local food in Havre, MT in the middle of winter. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/46 "2020-02-21T20:53:13Z")
I think NY City would happily separate from the state since they really fund the rest of the state and cannot even run their own subway system, which is run by the governor who doesn’t give a shit. See the recent dustup that led first to the demotion and then resignation of transit whiz Andy Byford. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/47 "2020-02-22T01:23:36Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > The Franklin proposal, which goes back over 80 years, would actually increase the disproportionate representation. It would take land from two blue states and makes a new red state from it. > > This Greater Idaho plan would not change the Senate, since it’s not creating a new state. But it would increase Idaho’s Congressional representation by two. Oregon’s and California’s numbers would decrease by one each. That would shift the Electoral College red-ward. **I’m sure this is one of the reasons for the proposal**. For those in the know, sure. But for the inhabitants of Idaho and Eastern Oregon, it sounds like a great, practical idea to get away from the government that is subsiding their lifestyle. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/48 "2020-02-22T02:29:23Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > For those in the know, sure. But for the inhabitants of Idaho and Eastern Oregon, it sounds like a great, practical idea to get away from the government that is subsiding their lifestyle. You misspelled **subsidizing**. There’s another economic effect: minimum wage. Oregon has a three tier minimum wage and the Greater Idaho areas are mostly in the lowest tier, which is currently at $11.00/hour. The rest are in the middle tier, currently $11.25/hr. Idaho has no state minimum wage so they’re subject to the federal minimum at $7.25. So how many minimum wage workers in eastern and southern Oregon are going to like having their hourly wage dropped because of this? While not every employer will drop their wages, you can bet a lot of them will. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/49 "2020-02-22T02:33:09Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > You misspelled **subsidizing**. I blame Obama. And the drugs. But mostly Obama. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/50 "2020-02-22T02:43:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I blame Obama. And the drugs. But mostly Obama. It’s his fault we legalized CBD oil. I’m sure of it. ---
**Author:** ![EdelweissPirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8491ac/32.png) [@EdelweissPirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdelweissPirate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/51 "2020-02-22T07:31:37Z")
> [@steatopygia](#): > > Shawn Vestal is a local treasure. The pessimist in me is waiting for him to move on. I know several people that have left the Spokesman in the last few years. Wow—he really could be a national treasure. That opinion piece was tight, funny and thoughtful. If most of his columns are generally similar, he really could be at Slate or maybe even The NY Times. The guy can write. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/52 "2020-02-22T07:55:30Z")
He has written several books including _Godforsaken Idaho_. That book won all these things; _Winner of the 2014 PEN/Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction Shortlisted for the William Saroyan International Prize for Writing Named “Outstanding 2013 Collection” by The Story Prize Pushcart Prize Winne_r I have no idea of the prestige of any of those. It was a good read though. He writes a column every 3 days or so for the Spokane Wa daily, _The Spokesman Review_. I think he writes about whatever he wants to. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/53 "2020-02-22T14:43:41Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I think NY City would happily separate from the state since they really fund the rest of the state and cannot even run their own subway system, which is run by the governor who doesn’t give a shit. See the recent dustup that led first to the demotion and then resignation of transit whiz Andy Byford. The problem with this is that soon Upstate York would have tension between Finger-Lakers feeling neglected by those big-wigs in Buffalo, and then when they split off, Watertown would feel like they’re being neglected by the bureaucrats in Syracuse. Meanwhile, down in The New Empire State, Brooklynites would claim to be abandoned by the Manhattan-focused governor, despite 80% of new businesses in the city-state being registered out of one guy’s brownstone in South Slope. New York will be anarchic, no matter how you slice it up. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/54 "2020-02-22T16:41:06Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I think NY City would happily separate from the state since they really fund the rest of the state and cannot even run their own subway system, which is run by the governor who doesn’t give a shit. See the recent dustup that led first to the demotion and then resignation of transit whiz Andy Byford. The City represents more than half of NY State tax revenue and less than half of spending. However, many discussions of geographic ‘subsidy’, when state or national level, tend to ignore the fact that a lot of the skew comes from progressive taxation. Even more so federal, the discussions where usually people on the left taunt ‘red’ states for getting more federal spending v taxes\* seem to forget that a lot of that is due to people with really high incomes paying a lot of tax, and more of them live in ‘blue’ states. And the same people doing that taunting typically think those high income people should be paying even more. There’s something of a contradiction there. Same with distribution within a state. Anyway I didn’t see noted that the Constitution requires the approval of Congress and the legislatures of the existing states involved to move counties from one state to another or establish new states out of existing ones. It’s not just the already generally quixotic quest to get an actual majority to vote for it in the relevant counties. Generally blue OR’s legislature would seem very unlikely to approve a shift of counties to ID even in view of the fairly slight effect of giving reliably GOP ID a slightly higher weight in the EC and OR a slightly lower one. Besides having to wait for GOP control of both houses of Congress. \*the specific numbers often based on pretty dubious methods. For example if the fed govt pays Lockmart $100mil or whatever for an F-35 assembled in TX, they have to give them an F-35 in return for the money. That’s not really giving $100mil to Lockmart let alone TX (since a lot of the value came from elsewhere). It shouldn’t be counted the same as giving somebody a govt transfer payment for which they don’t have to give anything in return. Besides which the person qualifying for that transfer payment would probably still qualify if they moved to any other state than the one they happen to live in. It’s a pure benefit, but to a person not a state. Ie those state spend v tax rankings that people link are basically nonsense, at least as far being taken literally, quantitatively. Although it still stands to reason that states with relatively fewer high income earners and relatively more poor people and others who qualify for federal transfer payments and subsidies come out ahead in tax v spend. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/55 "2020-02-24T16:28:59Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > OK, live off local food in Havre, MT in the middle of winter. I’m just saying perhaps eating fresh Oranges in MT in January and having stores full of cheap $1 junk isn’t in our best long-term interest. Just because we can do all this stuff doesn’t mean we should. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/56 "2020-02-24T21:34:55Z")
The Ontario-Nyssa area on the Oregon side of the Snake has always felt left out of things and is Idaho oriented. Hence the time zone thing. Once you get to Pendleton, La Grande and such they definitely don’t associate with Idaho much and think of themselves of Oregonians. Even Baker is more west than east looking. While of the more rural areas of Oregon aren’t too happy with some of the liberal stuff going on, the reputation of Idaho isn’t all that swell, either. And remember, Idaho has sales tax! That’ll turn a lot of people off right there. In fact, it’s a big thing Ontario folk deem a plus for them. All those spud growers crossing over to buy stuff in Oregon. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/57 "2020-02-25T07:31:11Z")
Having driven in OR during the winter, Oregonians who think they want to be Idahoans may want to rethink that position just based on winter road maintenance/snow plowing/salting/sanding alone. OR is parsecs ahead of ID and the roads are much better maintained generally as well. They truly don’t know how well off they are, even if most of the state is flat brown and boringly ugly. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/58 "2020-02-25T12:10:31Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > What we are seeing is urban vs rural. Rural wants to preserve their rural lifestyle. Urban likes buildings and crowds and people. Fundamentally different lifestyles. I think both are important but there needs to be respect and balance. For many, many years rural voters were able to control the urban centers. First they did this honestly because there were more people in rural areas. As that advantage slipped away, the rural people resorted to extreme gerrymandering and other techniques to keep power. Now the urban centers have grown so large that the rural people are losing political power. You see this in Nevada, Colorado and Virginia. Probably other places too. I was all great fun when rural people controlled the cities. Now they find it unjust when they are repaid in the same coin. What did you expect to happen? Thirty or more years ago New York City grumbled about leaving the state. Now the reverse is happening. It did not work then. It will not work now. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/59 "2020-02-25T16:30:29Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > Counties are lots easier to divide than states but when and where was the last new county formed ANYWHERE in the US? I’m guessing an Alaskan borough, which like a Louisianan parish is a county equivalent. My guess would be 1983 when [La Paz county](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Paz_County,_Arizona) split from the rest of Yuma county. It caused me some confusion because after I’d moved back to Arizona in 1998 I read an article that mentioned Arizona’s fifteen counties. I thought, “Fifteen? I was taught fourteen in grade school,” and did some research. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221/60 "2020-02-25T17:49:12Z")
[Broomfield County](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broomfield,_Colorado) in Colorado was created in 2001 from Boulder, Adams, Jefferson, and Weld counties. As **RioRico** notes, [Alaska](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boroughs_and_census_areas_in_Alaska) has created eight boroughs since 1986, with the most recent in 2013. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-half-of-oregon-and-some-of-ca-wants-to-become-greater-idaho/848221.md?page=4)