# So, Has NOAH's ARK Been Found? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488 "2006-06-20T21:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/181 "2026-10-16T13:46:12Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Note that the vertical post part of a cross was typically permenantly embedded in the ground and reused. And the nails would have almost certainly been recycled, to. Do you have a cite for that? Either part? Not many graves of crucifixion victims have been found, but one suggests they would be buried with nails still in them, if in fact they were buried at all. > **[Evidence of a Roman crucifixion found in Cambridgeshire](https://www.cam.ac.uk/stories/romancrucifixion)** > > The finding in the village of Fenstanton is the only known example of a Roman crucifixion in the British Isles, and perhaps the best preserved in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/182 "2026-10-16T14:02:30Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? Either part? From Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > In some cases, the condemned were forced to carry the crossbeam to the place of execution.[66] A whole cross would weigh well over 135 kg (300 lb), but the crossbeam would not be as burdensome, weighing around 45 kg (100 lb).[67] The Roman historian Tacitus records that the city of Rome had a specific place for carrying out executions, situated outside the Esquiline Gate,[68] and had a specific area reserved for the execution of slaves by crucifixion.[69] Upright posts would presumably be fixed permanently in that place, and the crossbeam, with the condemned person perhaps already nailed to it, would then be attached to the post. The terms you should be searching for are _Stipes_ (the permenant or semi-permenant upright post) and the _Patinulum_ (the crossbeam). As for the nails, the only times I can see that they are left in the body is when they are bent in a way that prevents them from being removed. From your own link: > [@](#): > > Although crucifixion was common in the Roman world, osteological evidence for the practice is extremely rare, according to Duhig, as nails were not always used – the victim was normally just tied to a crossbar – and bodies were not typically given formal burials. > > **Where nails were used, it was common practice to remove them after crucifixion to be re-used, discarded or repurposed as amulets.** Iron was EXPENSIVE! Remember that this is an era where people were constantly ripping apart older buildings to use their components to make new buildings (which leaves archeologists with only scraps). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/183 "2026-10-16T14:06:45Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Iron was EXPENSIVE! Were crucifixion nails necessarily iron? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/184 "2026-10-16T14:08:57Z")
They weren’t always _nails_, often people were just tied to the cross. But if you WERE going to use nails, I think they probably did have to be iron. I’m not sure that a couple of copper nails would successfully penetrate all the way through a limb without deforming when hitting bone, and I’m not sure that they’d be able to hold up a human body. I think copper nails are only meant to hold up a few pounds. And anyways, the Romans used iron for construction, so it would have been available; copper nails were only used for decorative ornaments and for ship building. Something for Mythbusters to test? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/185 "2026-10-16T14:12:30Z")
Also, on an unrelated note, whenever I see the thread title I wonder what the acronym NOAH stands for 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/186 "2026-10-16T15:02:30Z")
I was thinking more bronze than copper. But I’ll admit to very little experience with non-ferrous nails, and even less experience at using them for crucifixion. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/187 "2026-10-16T15:15:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But I’ll admit to very little experience with non-ferrous nails, and even less experience at using them for crucifixion. It’s never too late to pick up a new hobby! You _can_ teach an old dog new tricks! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/188 "2026-10-16T15:33:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I wonder what the acronym NOAH stands for 🤣 Given the rest of this thread I think the uppercase acronyms (both of them) stand for: National Organization of Amateur Historians - Ararat Research Klatsch You know, the sub-group of guys who keep making stupid Discovery-style videos about supposedly expeditioning out to find an Ark when they could be showing us scenes of a hole dug in their backyard for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/189 "2026-10-16T15:59:11Z")
Crucifixtion’s a doddle. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/190 "2026-10-16T17:05:24Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > it pays to have an ill noble lady do a cross check. Is this the origin of hockey? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/191 "2026-10-16T17:51:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > How would they possibly have known that they are pieces of the true cross in 326 AD? By finding the crosses in the right area- then testing the three crosses by a miracle. Like i said- > [@DrDeth](#): > > That _might_ have been the True Cross, but I have doubts. But in any case- the Cross found and the few bits remaining (they lost the Cross in a debacle battle during the Crusades) are legit relics of St Helena. > [@Babale](#): > > Iron was EXPENSIVE! Not cheap, sure, but not that precious- [https://www.academia.edu/12975842/Horrible\_Speculative\_Nasty\_Dangerous\_Assessing\_the\_Value\_of\_Roman\_Iron](https://www.academia.edu/12975842/Horrible_Speculative_Nasty_Dangerous_Assessing_the_Value_of_Roman_Iron) > 1. Iron’s price at Vindolanda was approximately 1.1 denarii per kilogram in early second century A.D. Bronze was much more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/192 "2026-10-16T18:36:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Also, on an unrelated note, whenever I see the thread title I wonder what the acronym NOAH stands for 🤣 Nautical Overburdened Animal Handler ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/193 "2026-10-16T18:42:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > By finding the crosses in the right area- Finding the Patinulum? Or the Stipes? Or both? The Romans were crucifying people in that area for hundreds of years, wouldn’t we expect to find lots of remnants from crosses in 300 AD? > [@DrDeth](#): > > then testing the three crosses by a miracle. And how exactly does one do that? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2026, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/194 "2026-10-16T20:15:54Z")
Yes, it was a common method of execution. Lots and lots of people killed that way. Although, i suppose if they usually reused the uprights, the odds of finding a piece that was used for a particular execution are a lot higher. Still, 300 years later, I’m pretty sure they would have had to swap out the uprights a few times. The originals were no doubt either burned or turned into a doorway or something somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/195 "2026-10-17T00:41:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > By finding the crosses in the right area- then testing the three crosses by a miracle. The latter part of your sentence firmly establishes that those involved were fervent religious fantasists and unreliable narrators; such that their claims related in the first part of your sentence are IMHO to be treated as having no truth value. Or to be blunt - we _know_ by their own words they were liars so why on earth do you believe them? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/196 "2026-10-17T02:44:29Z")
I think you’re missing the correction @DrDeth issued: > [@DrDeth](#): > > By finding the crosses in the right area- then testing the three crosses by a miracle. Like i said- > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > That _might_ have been the True Cross, but I have doubts. > > But in any case- the Cross found and the few bits remaining (they lost the Cross in a debacle battle during the Crusades) are legit relics of St Helena. Are they verifiable (in any non-religious sense) relics of the True Cross? Unknown, he has his doubts. There is better provenance though to consider them valid relics of _St Helena_. Not having the information or inclination to try to find the chain of custody on said “few bits remaining” but it’s likely at least _more_ plausible given semi-continuous custody rather than the 300 year gap between when the fragments of the True Cross were found by “miracle”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/197 "2026-10-17T03:14:05Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > There is better provenance though to consider them valid relics of _St Helena_. > > Not having the information or inclination to try to find the chain of custody on said “few bits remaining” but it’s likely at least _more_ plausible given semi-continuous custody rather than the 300 year gap between when the fragments of the True Cross were found by “miracle”. Exactly. I have doubts that cross was really the one Yeshua ben Joseph was executed on. But it is doubtless the one St Helena found, thus the few bits remaining are indeed Relics of a Saint. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/198 "2026-10-17T03:39:52Z")
I’m not missing anything. The established (by her own tale) facts are that St Helena was a liar and or idiot. I don’t see any reason to believe _anything_ she is reported as saying or doing. That she found wood where she said she did. That she even necessarily went where she said she did. That what she found was remains of a crucifixion cross. These religiously fervent people are _absolutely full of shit_. If they told me the sky was blue I’d begin to doubt it. There is no reason to believe _anything at all_ of her tale, or the tales told about her. It is absolutely beyond me as to why anyone would use the word “doubtless” within a million miles of a person known to be a religious fantasist and liar. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/199 "2026-10-17T03:52:45Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > The established (by her own tale) facts are that St Helena was a liar and or idiot. I am very sure she was not lying. Yes, she was deeply religious, but I am certain she believed those were the crosses- two for thieves and one for Christ, and that she sincerely believed her test worked. You can be very very certain of something and still be completely wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2026, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488/200 "2026-10-17T04:02:55Z")
Even assuming you are correct that she was a fantasist not a knowing liar, that doesn’t mean that any part of the tale is true. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-noahs-ark-been-found/361488.md?page=11)