# so has there ever been a case where assination of a ruler made things better ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212 "2017-06-30T17:40:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/1 "2017-06-30T17:40:35Z")
There was a discussion I read somewhere else where someone said to change the current political system you’d have to well put a hit out on about 5 or 6 political leaders in the government And that started a long arduous argument on whether assaination of ones government and policy makers would actually help or not Has there ever been a historical murder of a leader that actually helped out its people in the long run ? Some argued Julius Caesar but that would only work if you believed he was going to crown himself king and ignored the 20 years of civil war until Octavian crowned himself augustus… ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/2 "2017-06-30T18:44:45Z")
Well, going from Caligula to Claudius was a step in the right direction. And it’s _still_ controversial which regicides in the Wars of the Roses were or weren’t improvements (though one could argue which of those were assassinations versus executions versus battlefield deaths). ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/3 "2017-06-30T18:58:03Z")
Joseph Stalin was supposedly killed with rat poison by his head state secret police. After Stalin died, human rights improved. Not a ton, but the mass arrests and mass killings mostly ended. > **[New Study Supports Idea Stalin Was Poisoned (Published 2003)](https://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/05/world/new-study-supports-idea-stalin-was-poisoned.html)** > > Study of long-secret Soviet records lends new weight to old theory that Josef Stalin, who died of brain hemorrhage 50 years ago, was actually poisoned, perhaps to avert looming war with US; new book Stalin's Last Crime, by Vladimir P Naumov and... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/4 "2017-06-30T19:34:25Z")
You can make a good argument that the 1979 assassination of Park Chung-hee improved the political situation in South Korea. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/5 "2017-06-30T19:45:58Z")
This guy but was more execution than assassination > **[Executioner who killed evil dictator and ended brutal regime speaks out](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/executioner-who-killed-romanian-dictator-4851422)** > > Almost exactly 25 years on from the execution, Paratrooper Ionel Boeru recalls the moment he shot the evil president dead ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/6 "2017-06-30T19:50:23Z")
The assassination of William McKinley gave us Teddy Roosevelt, one of the greatest Presidents in American history. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/7 "2017-06-30T19:54:32Z")
On a related note, the Marcos regimes assassination of Begnino Aquino led to the ouster of the Marcoses and the ascension of his wife Corazon. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/8 "2017-06-30T19:56:31Z")
Yeah, whacking Caligula has got to be the all time winner. Of course when the Praetorians then proclaimed Uncle Claudius as the new emperor, everyone thought he was going to be an ineffectual puppet, what with his well known mental defects. So it’s not like the conspirators killed Caligula and then had a great plan to improve things. It was more like, “Hey let’s kill Caligula, how can it get any worse?” And then when Claudius steps up everyone is like “Oh, shiiiiiiit”. And then Claudius is all, “Hey remember when Tiberius and Sejanus and Caligula basically murdered ninety percent of the Julio-Claudian family? Except me? Why didn’t they bother to have me killed? Because I was an idiot, right? OK, so who’s the idiot now?” Then he goes and marries Messalina and then Agrippina, and the Romans are all, “…you?” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/9 "2017-07-01T01:54:19Z")
Tamerlane’s assassination spared China from the kind of destruction that Persia and India had experienced. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/10 "2017-07-01T05:45:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Tamerlane’s assassination spared China from the kind of destruction that Persia and India had experienced. Tamerlane’s assassination? You got a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/11 "2017-07-01T06:33:55Z")
Yes. In Spanish we don’t have a exact word for assassination. The false cognate “asesinato” just means murder. We usually have to clarify when it’s a “political murder”. However, Dominican Spanish has borrowed the word “ajusticiamiento”, or execution of a person condemned to death ti describe another type of killing: the assassination of a tyrant. The word can ve roughly translated as “the making of justice”. We had to “make justice” twice. Both times are generally seen as good things. If you ever read about Trujillo you’ll know why. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/12 "2017-07-01T06:55:21Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Joseph Stalin was supposedly killed with rat poison by his head state secret police. > > After Stalin died, human rights improved. Not a ton, but the mass arrests and mass killings mostly ended. > [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2003/03/05/world/new-study-supports-idea-stalin-was-poisoned.html](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2003/03/05/world/new-study-supports-idea-stalin-was-poisoned.html) Actually, it’s possible that [Tito may have had Stalin wacked](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2175385/Did-Tito-poison-Stalin-Historian-claims-Yugoslav-dictator-killed-rival-target-22-Soviet-assassination-attempts.html). (Yeah, it’s the Daily Mail, but Tito did indeed send that letter to Stalin. And Tito was fucking badass) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/13 "2017-07-01T10:25:20Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Tamerlane’s assassination? You got a cite for that? Yeah, he last posted yesterday! ---
**Author:** ![igor\_frankensteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/839c29/32.png) [@igor\_frankensteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/igor_frankensteen)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/14 "2017-07-01T12:16:39Z")
There seems to have been an unspoken goal in the original discussion that prompted this thread. Spelling that out, might be helpful, to guide the discussion. My instant guess, is that someone was trying to argue that assassination, in and of itself, is an inherently bad idea. I would suggest, IF that is the case, that the way to argue it is NOT to try to list a lot of assassinations, and make judgments about how beneficial they may have been and to whom. Instead, the better question to ask is, Has declaring assassination to be a LEGITIMATE way to change a government, proven to be a positive idea in the long run for a nation? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/15 "2017-07-01T15:13:10Z")
When I learned about the life of Huey Long, I was surprised that I’d never heard a peep about him in school. And I always wondered if maybe that was because the story of his death would have carried the message to schoolkids that sometimes, assassination had solved (or at least prevented) a problem. Even if Long hadn’t become an American dictator as his detractors warned, his impending square-off against FDR could have thrown a monkey wrench into the U.S.'s preparation for WW2. I don’t know if Long lived long enough to have voiced opinions on isolation vs. intervention in Europe, but he would have probably opposed FDR’s interventionism (if only for political reasons) when the time came. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2017, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/16 "2017-07-01T17:11:35Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Tamerlane’s assassination? You got a cite for that? Huh! I just Googled, and found nothing. Another “fact” I must have picked up somewhere and always thought was true. I apologize to the thread, and to the memory of the monstrous son of a bitch who did so much harm to human civilization. He should have been assassinated – Genghis and Atilla also – and that would have saved millions of lives, and advanced human history by hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/17 "2017-07-02T15:46:11Z")
The assassination of Mussolini may qualify. His regime was already on the skids, but his death helped end it and facilitate Italy’s switch to the Allies and development of a democratic republic. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/18 "2017-07-02T16:20:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > On a related note, the Marcos regimes assassination of Begnino Aquino led to the ouster of the Marcoses and the ascension of his wife Corazon. Benigno. Cognate with benign. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/19 "2017-07-02T21:58:09Z")
It is entirely possible that the assassination of JFK made things better. We’ll never know for sure of course because if we do chose to kill a leader we can never be certain of the choices they would make and how their rule would pan out for better or worse. nor whether the alternatives are better or worse. Stephen Fry mused on this in his novel “making history” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212/20 "2017-07-03T00:28:53Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#): > > Yes. > > In Spanish we don’t have a exact word for assassination. The false cognate “asesinato” just means murder. We usually have to clarify when it’s a “political murder”. > > However, Dominican Spanish has borrowed the word “ajusticiamiento”, or execution of a person condemned to death ti describe another type of killing: the assassination of a tyrant. The word can ve roughly translated as “the making of justice”. We had to “make justice” twice. Both times are generally seen as good things. > > If you ever read about Trujillo you’ll know why. That reminded me that in Spain, Generalissimo Franco is still dead… 🙂 I mean that, before his death, Franco had let it be known that Prime Minister Luis Carrero Blanco was going to be the successor and new dictator. I remember reading reports that after ETA spectacularly assassinated Blanco that many in Spain (most in secrecy then) did agree that the terrorists actually did hit a proper target while they condemned the assassination officially. Most did agree later that with Blanco and Franco dead that then there was no consensus among the defenders of the regime and then the opponents became bolder and the change to democracy was accelerated. [http://www.ozy.com/flashback/how-an-assassination-helped-turn-dictatorship-into-democracy/67535](http://www.ozy.com/flashback/how-an-assassination-helped-turn-dictatorship-into-democracy/67535) > [@](#): > > Everyone expected a crackdown in response. “There was a real fear the murder would trigger a hard-line reaction” and unleash a “repressive movement,” says Buesa. Instead, it was as if the regime capitulated, allowing for its demise, much like ETA wanted. Even the 80-year-old Franco appeared to give up. “They have cut the last thread that tied me to this world,” he was quoted as saying about Carrero Blanco’s assassination. Franco would later cry in front of his ministers and during the funeral. > > Oddly, Carrero Blanco’s death proved to be “a blessing” for democracy, says Tom Burns, a former Reuters journalist who has written numerous books about Spain’s political history. “If he had taken over in 1975 [when Franco died], the movement toward democracy would have been much slower,” Burns adds. To ensure the regime post-Franco, Carrero Blanco had been slowly leading a timid political and economic reform to placate prodemocratic camps. He was instrumental in introducing a backward Spain to Europe’s competitive economy and in persuading Franco in 1969 to name Prince Juan Carlos as the future puppet head of state when he died, to add a semblance of reform. > > For two years after the bombing, the regime weakened along with Franco’s health, in no small part because new Prime Minister Carlos Arias Navarro failed to unify Francoists: They were split between those who wanted more economic and political opening and those who preferred hard-line repression. Arias Navarro’s new cabinet was “hostile” toward the prince and to hints of reform within the regime. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-has-there-ever-been-a-case-where-assination-of-a-ruler-made-things-better/790212.md?page=2)