So have we the Americana public finally reached the level that mass shootings are just a part of life in America like bombings and shootings are in the middle east?

??? Are you trying to argue that American apathy about gun-violence deaths is in any way significantly impacted by the US incidence of deaths due to extreme weather incidents?!??

I mean, in 2021, for example, the total number of US deaths due to extreme weather was less than eight hundred individuals, or less than one thousand according to a different source, including the approximately 200 deaths ascribed to extreme heat. As Dinsdale pointed out in post #91, the total number of gun deaths in 2022 was 46 thousand. The 650 mass shooting deaths alone in 2022 equaled at least two-thirds of the previous year’s total of all weather-attributed deaths.

Other countries experience equal or higher incidence of fatality due to extreme weather, somehow without lapsing into jaded apathy about spiraling gun violence. No, we can’t pin this particular pathology on American “climate exceptionalism”.

The Second Amendment is actual text appended to the US constitution.

Roe v. Wade was a Supreme Court decision that struck down laws that had always been considered a legitimate part of the states’ general police power after the court discovered a hitherto unsuspected right in the “penumbra” of established civil rights.

To say that abortion was at least as well protected if not more so than keeping and bearing arms is imho an insupportable claim.

P.S. “Well-regulated militia”: if you want to drag that shibboleth up again I’ll re-debate it again, but in short it’s a case of “You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means”.

It’s very clear that whatever the text of the Second Amendment says, and whatever it meant in the 1790s, what it means NOW is the problem, as well as the fact that the Constitution is no longer amendable, especially the Bill of Rights (in cultural / practical terms—the legal mechanism for doing so hasn’t changed).

What it means now seems to be that Americans are allowed to have guns. Exactly where and when varies by state. Americans are mostly not allowed to shoot other people, but that also varies by jurisdiction (Castle doctrine, self defence, employment in the police / military, etc.).

So our problems are largely which people are getting shot. We (as a nation) don’t seem to mind if somebody gets shot, at all, but we’d prefer it not be children or innocent bystanders. We’re quite happy if it’s bad guys™.

That means that, as a nation, we’re largely thinking of the school shootings etc. as tragic errors (the wrong person got a gun! the wrong people got shot!) rather than the inevitable result of a society awash in deadly weapons.

The only way to solve the problem is a with a real cultural change. We have managed to change attitudes to some of our other deadly behaviours: drinking and what you can do when drunk; smoking. We haven’t eradicated these problems, but we have cut down on them considerably. Maybe we should look what the anti-smoking or anti-drunk-driving groups did that was successful, and emulate that until societal attitudes shift enough to contemplate changing the laws.

This seems to be resolved here, but for future reference, if you want the mods to opine, please report the relevant post, or @ the mods for the forum.

This kind of rhetoric wins any discussion. I’m out.

Well, bye.

Right - cause that’s the problem - rhetoric. Not dead children, heavens no. Rhetoric.