# So how are those health care exchanges coming along? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841 "2013-10-21T17:53:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/101 "2013-10-24T15:03:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s been well established that businesses cut hours to avoid ACA. This hurt a lot of people and all you’ve got is smart ass retorts. You don’t care. Can we have some of the evidence that has established that this has happened? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/102 "2013-10-24T15:06:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually there’s been a lot of speculation and talk and a bit of anecdotal reporting about it, but it’s by no means “well established”. (The opposite, if anything.) Here’s a [cite](http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2013/October/23/reform-policy-issues.aspx?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+topics%2Fmarketplace%2Ffulltext+(Kaiser+Health+News+-+Marketplace+(Full+Text))). I personally think it’s very possible that it will have this impact once the penalties take effect. But that’s a far cry from claiming that it already happened, let alone that this is “well established”. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/103 "2013-10-24T16:15:00Z")
So, basically, asshole greedy employers who were already looking for an excuse to cut hours are blaming the ACA for them cutting hours. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/104 "2013-10-24T16:25:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > So, basically, asshole greedy employers who were already looking for an excuse to cut hours are blaming the ACA for them cutting hours. By saying “so, basically …” you imply that you’re summing up evidence that’s been presented at greater length. This is not correct - to this point there’s been no evidence of your claim. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/105 "2013-10-24T16:36:14Z")
News reports today indicate some minor changes that effectively push back the enrollment deadline for individuals for a couple weeks. The White House is preparing clarifying information [according to USA Today](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/10/24/obama-obamacare-signup-penalties/3177297/). Prior to these changes those persons seeking individual coverage needed to enroll prior to Feb 15 to have coverage by Mar 1st and avoid penalty. Apparently the law specified that you needed to enroll by the 15th to have coverage effective the 1st of the follow month. So enrollments from Feb 16th to 28th would not have coverage until Apr 1st. That is being changed so that anyone enrolling by Mar 31st will avoid penalty. Humbly, if the ACA is to deliver a competitive marketplace through the exchanges that will help to drive down the cost of premiums then the website needs to work. It is hard to gather the same comparative information over the phone. The delay is a start at addressing the problems from the poor website roll out. I would not be surprised to see new and unexpected problems turn up resulting in further delays. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/106 "2013-10-25T05:08:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > By saying “so, basically …” you imply that you’re summing up evidence that’s been presented at greater length. This is not correct - to this point there’s been no evidence of your claim. [23% of job’s created are full time](http://thegazette.com/2013/09/01/part-time-employment-rising-as-full-time-jobs-decline/). [The trend](http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/090613-670104-obamacare-spurs-shortest-low-wage-week-ever.htm). [Note the hours reduced focus around the number 30](http://http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/107 "2013-10-25T05:13:21Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Humbly, if the ACA is to deliver a competitive marketplace through the exchanges that will help to drive down the cost of premiums then the website needs to work. It is hard to gather the same comparative information over the phone. > > The delay is a start at addressing the problems from the poor website roll out. I would not be surprised to see new and unexpected problems turn up resulting in further delays. why are my premiums going up? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/108 "2013-10-25T06:16:08Z")
Because Obama hates you, and is out to get you. The rest of us don’t have that problem. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/109 "2013-10-25T11:55:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Because Obama hates you, and is out to get you. The rest of us don’t have that problem. Well, no…a lot of us hate him and are out to get him, too. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/110 "2013-10-25T13:49:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > why are my premiums going up? Are your premiums going up? Did your premiums never go up in the past? Most people have a history of having their premiums increase over time. Average premium increases in rhe past 12 years have varied from as low as 3% (in the past year) to as high as 14% in 2002. Is the rate of increase for your premiums higher, the same or lower than comparable periods in the past? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/111 "2013-10-25T13:56:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [23% of job’s created are full time](http://thegazette.com/2013/09/01/part-time-employment-rising-as-full-time-jobs-decline/). [The trend](http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/090613-670104-obamacare-spurs-shortest-low-wage-week-ever.htm). [Note the hours reduced focus around the number 30](http://http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm). [Politifact disagrees.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/22/maria-bartiromo/bartiromo-says-obamacare-turning-us-part-time-empl/) “Government numbers actually show that the fraction of part-timers in the workforce has declined since 2010 and in a longer historical perspective, the share of part-timers was less during this recession than in the downturn of 1983.” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/112 "2013-10-25T14:03:03Z")
[quote=“Hentor\_the\_Barbarian, post:110, topic:671841”] Are your premiums going up? [quote] yes > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Did your premiums never go up in the past? at a lower rate. When I renewed my financial advisor was pretty close to the mark on his estimate if the ACA was passed. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Most people have a history of having their premiums increase over time. Average premium increases in rhe past 12 years have varied from as low as 3% (in the past year) to as high as 14% in 2002. > > Is the rate of increase for your premiums higher, the same or lower than comparable periods in the past? when the ACA passed my insurance rose considerably. I think it was 27%. It went up 17% this year and it’s going up 12 % next year. It’s going up because of the required mandates of the ACA bill so the claim that insurance rates would fall was just a flat out lie. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/113 "2013-10-25T14:17:57Z")
[quote=“Magiver, post:112, topic:671841”] [quote=“Hentor\_the\_Barbarian, post:110, topic:671841”] Are your premiums going up? > [@](#): > > yes > > at a lower rate. When I renewed my financial advisor was pretty close to the mark on his estimate if the ACA was passed. > > when the ACA passed my insurance rose considerably. I think it was 27%. It went up 17% this year and it’s going up 12 % next year. > > It’s going up because of the required mandates of the ACA bill so the claim that insurance rates would fall was just a flat out lie. If the claim was that Magivers rates won’t go up, and yours actually have, then that would be a lie. Of course, I don’t think anyone voted for the Affordable Care for Magiver Act. On average, health insurance costs are going down. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/114 "2013-10-25T14:24:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [23% of job’s created are full time](http://thegazette.com/2013/09/01/part-time-employment-rising-as-full-time-jobs-decline/). [The trend](http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/090613-670104-obamacare-spurs-shortest-low-wage-week-ever.htm). [Note the hours reduced focus around the number 30](http://http://news.investors.com/politics-obamacare/101713-669013-obamacare-employer-mandate-a-list-of-cuts-to-work-hours-jobs.htm). The WSJ article that I cited earlier asserted that the rate of “just under 30 hours” part timers has gone down, which suggests that it’s not related to Obamacare. (Your link which ostensibly says the opposite doesn’t work.) [BTW, the quote from me that you responded to was not addressed to you.] [quote=“Magiver, post:112, topic:671841”] [quote=“Hentor\_the\_Barbarian, post:110, topic:671841”] Are your premiums going up? > [@](#): > > yes > > at a lower rate. When I renewed my financial advisor was pretty close to the mark on his estimate if the ACA was passed. > > when the ACA passed my insurance rose considerably. I think it was 27%. It went up 17% this year and it’s going up 12 % next year. > > It’s going up because of the required mandates of the ACA bill so the claim that insurance rates would fall was just a flat out lie. There’s absolutely nothing in the ACA that would cause your premiums to increase by that magnitude year over year. (There’s also no truth to claims that Obamacare has made premiums decrease.) On average, the impact of Obamacare to this point is thought to be on average an increase of a couple of percentage points, varying based on prior plan design. (Overall medical inflation has been pretty low the past few year - mostly recession-related - which has mitigated this impact.) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/115 "2013-10-25T14:24:15Z")
[quote=“Hentor\_the\_Barbarian, post:113, topic:671841”] [quote=“Magiver, post:112, topic:671841”] > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are your premiums going up?If the claim was that Magivers rates won’t go up, and yours actually have, then that would be a lie. > > Of course, I don’t think anyone voted for the Affordable Care for Magiver Act. On average, health insurance costs are going down. He, the President said they would go down. [cite.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-claim-that-insurance-premiums-will-go-down/2012/08/09/424048f2-e245-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html) He didn’t say they would go down except Magiver’s. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/116 "2013-10-25T14:26:27Z")
[quote=“Fotheringay-Phipps, post:114, topic:671841”] The WSJ article that I cited earlier asserted that the rate of “just under 30 hours” part timers has gone down, which suggests that it’s not related to Obamacare. (Your link which ostensibly says the opposite doesn’t work.) [BTW, the quote from me that you responded to was not addressed to you.] [quote=“Magiver, post:112, topic:671841”] > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Are your premiums going up?There’s absolutely nothing in the ACA that would cause your premiums to increase by that magnitude year over year. (There’s also no truth to claims that Obamacare has made premiums decrease.) On average, the impact of Obamacare to this point is thought to be on average an increase of a couple of percentage points, varying based on prior plan design. (Overall medical inflation has been pretty low the past few year - mostly recession-related - which has mitigated this impact.) They increased the requirements of insurance polices. So yes, there is something that would cause rates to go up. It’s directly related to ACA. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/117 "2013-10-28T20:31:27Z")
I’m starting to think the exchanges may collapse if the website makes it so hard to sign up that only the sickest who need the most care are determined enough to do so. That is kind of a bummer; but even if that part of the law ends up just withering away and all we are left with is the Medicaid expansion and the various new rules that have been added, I would still consider that a great improvement on what we had before. In particular, I will smirk and gloat if the red states continue to stubbornly refuse the federal money from the Medicaid expansion and thus subsidise the expansion in blue states. Not only will that be a windfall for the lower-middle income workers that will get health care under Medicaid, it will also be a boon to the medical sector in those states and a body blow to that sector in red states. So we ought to see a continued sharpening of the tendency for blue states to have better economies and better jobs than red states. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/118 "2013-10-28T20:36:21Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > In particular, I will smirk and gloat if the red states continue to stubbornly refuse the federal money from the Medicaid expansion and thus subsidise the expansion in blue states. Not only will that be a windfall for the lower-middle income workers that will get health care under Medicaid, it will also be a boon to the medical sector in those states and a body blow to that sector in red states. So we ought to see a continued sharpening of the tendency for blue states to have better economies and better jobs than red states. Unless, of course, the enhanced eligibility for Medicaid drives a lot of lower income people to migrate to Blue States and then the feds cut back on the reimbursement, leaving the Blue States holding the (inflated) bag. Then you might smirk and gloat a little bit less. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/119 "2013-10-28T20:42:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Unless, of course, the enhanced eligibility for Medicaid drives a lot of lower income people to migrate to Blue States and then the feds cut back on the reimbursement, leaving the Blue States holding the (inflated) bag. > > Then you might smirk and gloat a little bit less. The fact that you think we’d be dismayed at people getting the medical care they need, even if that means in the Democratic-controlled states, tells me a whole lot more about you than it does about Obamacare… ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2013, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841/120 "2013-10-28T20:45:07Z")
I’m not sure who “we” is and think in general people should speak for themselves and not for other people. But I was addressing a guy who was planning to smirk and gloat should there be a “body blow” to the medical sector in Red States. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-are-those-health-care-exchanges-coming-along/671841.md?page=7)