What leads you to imagine that bibles won’t be sold in bookstores? Worry ye not: I’m sure you’ll find one. Bookstores also tend to stock useful books about grammar.
What is the "it that “they” are “fighting over”? Is it “freedom of religious beliefs”? So, are you saying that the only people who are fighting over “it” are the ones who don’t want “it”, i.e. freedom of religious belief, to exist?
It’s rather a confusing post, really.
How about we keep “In God We Trust” on one side of the bill, and put “There Are No Gods” on the other? Surely even a pessimistic Christian like Dreamer couldn’t object to nontheists getting equal time!
Sounds good to me :D. And btw I don’t consider myself a “pessimistic” Christian. I believe what the bible says about our world and it’s future and as I see it unfold I can’t help but be saddened by it. But I know in the end God has the final word so I’m pretty optimistic about that :).
Right, like devout Christian Bob Barr. Remember him? Tried to keep Wiccans in the U.S. Army from being allowed to practice their religion on base? He’s got a bad mustache? Bob Barr? No?
It cuts both ways. There are plenty of Christians out there fighting to have Christianity established as the de facto “official religion” of the United States government. If there are also people out there reminding the Congress that it is forbidden from passing laws that have a strictly religious purpose, well, so what?
It will not come off any time soon. And I think that any serious attempt of such sometime soon will just backfire and force a legislative decision that would make it even harder to remove those four words. Separation of Church and State is not written in the Constitution, but is an interpretation of it. It is just as easy to interpret that the state must respect and acknowledge all religions. Therefore the seperation principal could be found unconstitutional. But I am not saying that that is likely to happen either. But I am saying that I think there is a slippery balance in our society today that the majority is ok with the interpretation of SoCS, but and attempt to change that balance could force the overwhelming majority of religous fundies in our country to fight back.
You cannot “hang your hat” on the SoCS clause in the constitution.
dreamer wrote:
Huh? “I’m not pessimistic, I just think that the end-time events foretold by the Book of Revelation are starting to happen right now and that the world’s going to end within my generation.” 
dreamer wrote:
Huh? “I’m not pessimistic, I just think that the end-time events foretold by the Book of Revelation are starting to happen right now and that the world’s going to end within my generation.”
Many Christians see that as being optimistic.
Well, not exactly. End-time events have been happening for years and who knows how many more years to come, but the world will not end. Maybe you should read the Book of Revelation so you can see what really happens. 
Yeah, for thousands of years. And yet time never ends and fanatics keep telling us it’s just around the corner.
I tell ya, boy was I shocked when the world didn’t end on New Years, 2000. But I was assured that it would fianlly come in 2001, and damn it, I let my laundry get out of hand expecting it to be a moot issue. I guess I’ll just assume that prophecy-based predictions of catastrophic future events are expressions of ignorance, wishful thinking, and manipulative lies for personal profit. We’ll see if this line of thought will work out better than assuming the world is doomed.
I guess this means I’ll have to do the dishes as well. . .
DaLovin’ Dj
Well I’m certainly not gaining any personal profit for fighting ignorance and probably not making any new friends either
The ones out for profit are the ones who publish prophesy books and such. Also the ones who wrote the religious texts of the world originally - they were out to gain power IMO. You fall under the “ignorant” category here - you believe these people’s lies. I was not implying that you do so out of a desire for profit, only that some do (have done in the past). I don’t think your greedy, I just think that you’ve been suckered by this religious hogwash.
DaLovin’ Dj
Uh, well, try to be careful, there, Dj. I mean, the Revelation was written down by John when he was imprisoned/in exile on a tiny little island in the Mediterranean. Hardly a power grab on his part.
I don’t believe anybody’s lies. And I am not ignorant thank you very much. Before I even read any type of prophecy book I read the bible. I read the book of Daniel and the book of Acts and of course the Book of Revelation. I believe what I read and how God responds to me in my questioning and my faith. I have not been suckered by anyone and I do take offense at you saying that I have and saying what I believe is “religious hogwash”.
You fight ignorance your own way and I won’t put you down for it, but leave me to fight it my own way too - which is the very reason we are here at the SD.
this is great debates, dreamer. if you can’t stand having your opinion challenged, then don’t give it. you still haven’t told me why americans need to be told that they trust in god on their currency.
my view that the currency should be changed is in no way a ‘weak slippery slope argument.’ your dark prophecies of crosses being banned from churches and bibles from book stores are. they assume massive catastrophe from a single step. a slippery slope argument. and as shown by other posters above, a weak one.
and do some research, find out which religion is the predominant one in america today, and then work out how ludicrous your statement is that ‘a lot of people don’t like Christians and what they believe in and stand for.’
Not to hijack this thread too much, dreamer, but now I’m curious – do you read those “Left Behind” novels, too? If so, what’s your take on them?
(queried primarily because I finally got around to reading this week’s issue of Time, which covered the rising trend in End-Times-interest among the populace)
Revelation 21:1 :
“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.”
The “first earth” passing away sure sounds like the end of the world to me.
But that’s just because you are a godless heathen, tracer.
And… Revelation 21:2; "I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them and be their God. ** He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”**
I wouldn’t call that the “end of the world”. It sounds like a New Beginning to me 
Yes, I have read them rjung. I knew that question would have to come up sooner or later :). I truly enjoyed reading those books and will continue reading each one as they come out. But in all seriousness, I can’t say I believe it’s going to happen that way. Obviously those books are fiction. I don’t know if your looking for that kind of answer but I’ve read the “Left Behind” threads here from awhile back and I’m pretty sure many people here are not fond of those books, or their readers ;).