# So, how should I react to the presence of slaves in my city? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 22, 2013, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063 "2013-02-22T07:21:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/21 "2013-02-22T16:32:29Z")
The unchanged, deliberately awful incarcerated situation is the punishment, of course. In many minds, that’s the whole point of the system. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/22 "2013-02-22T16:33:54Z")
> [@FrankJBN](#): > > “But it’s not really a free or fair choice, is it, if the only alternative is made deliberately awful” > > Not at all. The alternative is to have their situation remain unchanged. The convicts working are already incarcerated. They are not punished for refusing to volunteer for work detail. Frank, seriously, **please** learn how to use the quote function here on these boards. It makes it far easier to tell to whom you’re replying (especially in those cases where you’re replying to multiple people). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/23 "2013-02-22T16:44:14Z")
I think prisoners should have the choice of working or getting stuck in an unheated cell with a diet of bread and water. But it should be a choice. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/24 "2013-02-22T16:51:08Z")
Using a whip on a man, whether he is free or a prisoner, is just plain wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/25 "2013-02-22T17:32:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Using a whip on a man, whether he is free or a prisoner, is just plain wrong. It really reduces their resale value. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/26 "2013-02-22T17:37:15Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Frank, seriously, **please** learn how to use the quote function here on these boards. It makes it far easier to tell to whom you’re replying (especially in those cases where you’re replying to multiple people). Others have tried pointing this out. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/27 "2013-02-22T18:21:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Others have tried pointing this out. Yeah, I know, which is why I was hoping repetition would have an effect. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/28 "2013-02-22T18:31:40Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > That any jurisdiction deliberately locks up people to get free labor is the most ridiculous theory I’ve seen in years. > > It costs something in the area of $80,000/yr to house a prisoner in the US. > > That works out to $40/hour if you work a 50 weeks (2 for vacation) at 40 hours/week. Probably be better off sending all the criminals to Harvard. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/29 "2013-02-22T18:35:11Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > I have mixed feelings about it as well, but I’ll note: > After Rent, Groceries, Utilities, Gas, Insurance, Cable . . . I only make about $1 an hour. You could almost double your pay by cutting the Cable :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/30 "2013-02-22T18:58:08Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > After Rent, Groceries, Utilities, Gas, Insurance, Cable . . . I only make about $1 an hour. Some of the things you count in your Groceries are things captive laborers would have to buy _with_ their $1. And they mostly don’t get Cable. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/31 "2013-02-22T19:32:44Z")
Nah, they get fed for free. Snacks are extra though. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/32 "2013-02-22T19:36:15Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > But it’s not really a free or fair choice, is it, if the only alternative is made deliberately awful. It’s not very ‘humane’ to offer occasional, partial respites, with conditions, from the state’s own inhumanity. How is the state inhumane in this case? It sets out a list of laws intended for the protection of humans and property. In other words, for everyone’s safety. It also offers the public the opportunity to change, through legislative process, any of those laws with which the majority disagree. Then, furthermore, it gives advance notice that anyone violating such laws will have a consequence. At that point every citizen has knowledge and choice of how he chooses to conduct himself. If he has broken the law rather than work within a legal framework to change the law he has knowingly and with full freedom of choice put himself at risk of being incarcerated. At that point he no longer has the luxury of choice that law-abiding citizens have. Guess it depends on which side of the fence you want to be on. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/33 "2013-02-22T19:46:44Z")
Requiring prisoners to work, with or without pay is not unconstitutional. It’s says right there in the constitution, amend 13, that slavery and or servitude as punishment for a crime is constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/34 "2013-02-22T19:47:57Z")
I’ve seen a lot of injustice in the correctional system in my many years of working in it. But a convicted felon inmate being offered the privilege of working outside the prison walls and fences for money is not one of those injustices that I’ve observed. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/35 "2013-02-22T19:59:52Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Some of the things you count in your Groceries are things captive laborers would have to buy _with_ their $1. And they mostly don’t get Cable. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Nah, they get fed for free. Snacks are extra though. Exactly. > [@Tethered\_Kite](#): > > How is the state inhumane in this case? I’m speaking specifically of the conditions of incarceration, not of the terms for how people get there. If typical American conditions of incarceration are _not_ somewhat inhumane to begin with, then it can’t be more humane to relieve them, can it? > [@Hello\_Again](#): > > Requiring prisoners to work, with or without pay is not unconstitutional. It’s says right there in the constitution, amend 13, that slavery and or servitude as punishment for a crime is constitutional. Yep. The problem in this thread is that some people are trying to argue that prison laborers are really not anything _like_ slaves–people want to believe that the decision is ‘voluntary,’ that offering it demonstrates our ‘humanity.’ Hogwash. Captive labor is an exploited resource, and a tool of inmate management. Don’t fool yourself by prettying it up. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/36 "2013-02-22T20:01:15Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I’ve seen a lot of injustice in the correctional system in my many years of working in it. > > But a convicted felon inmate being offered the privilege of working outside the prison walls and fences for money is not one of those injustices that I’ve observed. Yes. And doesn’t it count towards “good behavior”? Personally I’d be working for free if it got me out of the prison for a while. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/37 "2013-02-22T20:07:38Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Some of the things you count in your Groceries are things captive laborers would have to buy _with_ their $1. And they mostly don’t get Cable. Assume much? At times in my life when I’ve squeeked by paycheck to paycheck, I sure don’t recall spending what little money I had for groceries on junk food. ---
**Author:** ![FrankJBN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@FrankJBN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrankJBN)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/38 "2013-02-22T20:36:01Z")
Kenobi says: “Frank, seriously, please learn how to use the quote function here on these boards” What the aboves means is that I am quoting what Kenobi said, if anyone doesn’t realize it. People may not read my posts becAuse of how they are formatted? I’ll be ruined! Kenobi, you do what you want, I’ll do what I want. If you can’t stop complaining, just stop reading my posts - I’ll never know the difference - well, I guess I’ll be able to tell because I won’t have you chuffing at me. Oh and in the case you are complaining about, I was responding to one post up - internet era attention span anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/39 "2013-02-22T20:49:15Z")
If you want to be upset about slavery in your city try looking into Chinese buffet type restaurants and “massage parlors”. I have very little problem with prisoner labor. It has to be more rehabilitating than sitting in a concrete box or playing gang warfare in the yard. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063/40 "2013-02-22T21:05:12Z")
Up until as recently as 1996, “fallen” girls in Ireland were held as slaves and suffered in the [Magdalene Asylums](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Asylum), big industrial laundry institutes exploited by the Catholic Church. It was in the news today that the Irish Government finally has offered apologies to the girls held as slaves there. > [@](#): > > The existence of the Irish asylums was not well known until 1993 when an order of nuns, Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, in Dublin sold part of their convent to a real-estate developer. The remains of 155 inmates who had been buried in unmarked graves on the property were exhumed and, except for one, cremated and reburied in a mass grave in Glasnevin Cemetery. This triggered a public scandal and became national news.[4] In 1999, Mary Norris, Josephine McCarthy and Mary-Jo McDonagh, all asylum inmates, gave accounts of their treatment. > > The 1997 Channel 4 documentary Sex in a Cold Climate interviewed former inmates of Magdalene Asylums who testified to continued sexual, psychological and physical abuse while being isolated from the outside world for an indefinite amount of time. Allegations about the conditions in the convents and the treatment of the inmates were made into an award-winning 2002 film The Magdalene Sisters… > > In June 2011, Mary Raftery wrote in the The Irish Times that in the early 1940s, some Irish state institutions, such as the army, switched from commercial laundries to “institutional laundries” (Magdalene laundries)… Minister for Defence, said the contracts with the Magdalene laundries “contain a fair wages clause,” though the women in those laundries did not receive wages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-should-i-react-to-the-presence-of-slaves-in-my-city/651063.md?page=3)