Not really. I pay about a third of the cable bill, and that’s because I want the internet access. We get cable T.V. more for my roommate and her kids (the kids really), I’d happily drop the cable T.V. So, even without the cable bill, I’ve got about the same amount of discretionary income as working prisoners (this is assuming Try2B Comprehensive’s $1/hr estimate is correct, but discounting the probability that they don’t work 40 hours a week).
I get a little skeeved out when I see the prison crews working the grounds of an elementary school. :eek:
Then my brain takes over and I remind myself:
•They are working at the school when school is not in session; there are no children around. It’s usually a weekend.
•There are guards standing around to make sure nobody runs off.
•The only difference between those guys and me is I haven’t been arrested for and convicted of my crimes. They got caught. From a certain point of view, we’re all criminals, unless someone here always drives exactly the speed limit. Most of us break little laws all the time.
To the OP: I don’t think it’s slavery if you get paid. These guys get paid (a tiny bit) and earn good behavior time, possibly some work skills, and probably get a sense of normalcy for a little while. Like the prisoners who tarred the roof in Shawshank Redemption talking about feeling normal because Andy Dufresne got them some cold beers after a hard day’s work.
It works well enough when you do it that way. I’ve seen several of your posts where you don’t reference the person you’re quoting (or, where, you quote multiple people, or quote someone’s reply to someone else), and that becomes confusing to read.
Save for the fact that, during the time you were composing that response, another post was made on this thread…so, by the time you posted it, it was not, in fact, “responding to one post up”.
(I am, truly, trying to be helpful. Yes, I’m not the only one who’s been mentioning this to you. The Quote tool is there for a reason, and the SDMB, like any community, has a set of norms that have grown with the community.)
[end hijack]
I don’t like prison labor. In this case, I think labor should be done by enterprising businesses OR we pay prisoners the minimum wage. I get the effect, both physical and psychological, of making prisoners work instead of sitting around all day, but I don’t like using their wages or cutting them so the state can fund itself. Incarceration is something we have to do, something the state is obligated to do. We should not exploit people to pay for it. If the state cannot pay for prisons without charging prisoners $4.99 out of their $5 salary, then they shouldn’t be locking so many people up
Are we talking chain gangs here? ( in fact do they even exist outside of my imagination and reruns of Cool Hand Luke?)
Exploited by big business and the government too. 
I wonder how the OP feels about community service being given as a sentence.
No thanks.
If you have a claim to make, then make it, and actually make an argument in support of that claim, and we can talk about the merits of that argument. As it is, you are just blathering on in the general direction of “prison nation” and other lunacy.
I’ll leave you to it if that is all you are capable of doing.
[QUOTE=Peremensoe;]
The problem in this thread is that some people are trying to argue that prison laborers are really not anything like slaves–people want to believe that the decision is ‘voluntary,’ that offering it demonstrates our ‘humanity.’ Hogwash. Captive labor is an exploited resource, and a tool of inmate management. Don’t fool yourself by prettying it up.
[/QUOTE]
Well prison work has always been intended to serve a reformatory purpose as well as offset the cost of incarceration. Those ideas are as old as the Anerican state, and ate very closely entwined with the American prison system.
The average pay is under $2/hr (somehow I think it’s 1.13); however if prisoners make products that move in interstate commerce, they have to paid the same wage as a free worker at the same task. There are a number of certified programs across the country. So prisoner pay actually varies quite a bit. Prisoners can work in services without triggering this rule; the Federal prison system promotes itself as an alternative to off shoring for customer service contracting. Native Englush speakers at Mumbai prices!
BTW, in the south they have a saying “bad boys make good roads.”
Are you sure about that?
Well, consider this:
Do not prison labor and profit motive intersect?
I have a feeling that something similar happened in Australia too for a while
As a taxpayer I have a little different take. I would rather that the larger portion of my taxes go to infrastructure, schools, housing - all things that law-abiding citizens can benefit from.
How do you see it as “exploitation” to expect lawbreakers to pay part of the cost of their care which was the result of their poor citizenship? Isn’t it human nature that all of us do what we can to support ourselves? Why should prisoners be exempt from this natural effect?
And, as you note, it is much more healthy for them than brooding in a cell.
I put the thread in IMHO because I am unsure of where to stand on the question. I have uneasy feelings and ethical questions, but not a conclusion on where to stand on the issue.
I’m worried about the downsides of prison labor. In the case of the crew I saw shoveling snow downtown, why there used to be a a smaller crew of city workers running sweepers to do that job. I guess they are out of a job now that prisoners are doing the work.
Is prison labor being used as part of the right’s campaign to destroy unions, and also to fund tax breaks for the wealthy by switching to slave labor? From the same article:
The system seems like it could be abused
Here’s an anecdote that combines prison labor with one answer to the question of what prisoners are paid:
UNICOR is an interesting organization:
It is easy to believe that prison labor (is it fair to label it ‘slave labor’?) is taking jobs away from free people, whether for political or profit reasons.
Unfortunately, it should be about rehabilitation not about punishment.
One of the problems is that nobody has developed a reliable method of rehabilitating sociopaths. Time out is what works best. If the affliction is not too intractable it will fade some with age and time. Sociopaths take a very long time to learn the law of cause and effect.
Not that everyone who is incarcerated is a sociopath. But the recidivists generally are.
LOL. Comes of posting from my phone. But in case anyone’s curious: http://www.unicor.gov/services/contact_helpdesk/index.cfm
Untrue. While psychopaths (aka sociopaths) are much more common in prison than in the general population (20% of inmates overall), they make up at most only 30-35% of the re-offending population.
According to studies I’ve ready a history of antisocial behaviors is one of the strongest predictors for recidivism. Perhaps it’s more accurate to say recidivists are more apt to be personality disordered?
Your figure is definitely low. Are you including Antisocial Personality Disorder in your definition of Sociopath/Psychopath? Because that would be important.
I believe it’s supposed to be both, not to mention protection for the rest of us. Like it or not, some people do deserve to be in prison, and I don’t feel the least bit sorry for them.
I’m not one of those, “lock 'em up, let 'em fry!” types, but there some people really have earned their sentences.