So how were the pyramids built?

Great Debates
41

Squid - the posting was admirable but there’s some flaws.

As pointed out above - the casing stones are gone, almost 100%. Perhaps the analysis was done from the remaining ones?

The surface of the casing stones (now gone) approximate the curve of the earth. Hmmmmm… The curve is extremely gentle and would be hard to detect from the very crude limestone structure now sorely worn. The casing was pilfered for the building of Cairo, and I doubt this curvature information would have been available to Newton - although I realize you don’t claim this. Also Newton himself was pushing for the “oblate spheroid” theory of the earth’s shape - which curve does the pyramid approximate? The curve of the earth at the poles or the equator - or perhaps one of the million gradients between, picking one that happens to match the supposed curve of the pyramid?

The Sphinx is probabaly older than the Pyramids - “An inscription found by Mariette near one of the pyramids to the east of the Pyramid of Cheops (Chu-fu) shows that the Sphinx existed in the time of Cheops.” - “The Mummy”, E.A. Wallis Budge (Please don’t confuse this seminal work on Egyptology with the movie of the same name). 10,000 years old seems alittle long in the tooth, but the construction out of the “living rock” means that brute effort is what is required, not the considerable engineering of the pyramids. The head is smaller than it might be if the statue was proportioned like smaller versions of the sphinx. Perhaps an artifact of the process. The body cut out of living rock, could be made rather large - the head, pulled up a ramp to place it, may have been more manageable if slightly undersized. The face may have been replaced under THothmes III or IV who restored it…

The 365.25 day year was no secret to the Egyptians, nor the Babylonians of this time (although Veliskovsky would dispute this figure for the year). I’m not surprised they incorporated this into their design. Your reference leaves out the proportion phi which also appears in the pyramid.

Working backwards for other fascinating results we might want to find, we could crunch numbers using the cubit, or other unit’s of measure (why in this example is a Jewish measure used - convenience in generating the desired result?) and eventually we may find some suitable mysterious results…

As far as the average distance from sea level equaling the pyramid’s height - um fuzzy stuff here. The average sea level TODAY?, Newton’s time?, the time the pyramid was built?. The actual height of Everest was adjusted again this past summer. Before we determine the relationship of the height of the pyramid to such a measurement, we must agree on what that measurement is…Also, if we are looking for a cooincidence, we have several heights to choose from, the top of the pyramid, the base, or perhaps the midpoint. We pick one that is close (as apparently the actual height of Everest has just been determined, and may have changed by a few feet in 4000+ years - the Himalayas exhibit the fasted rate of rise of any land mass)“match” it to our favorite current measurement for the average height above sea level and stand back in awe at what we’ve “found”.

The Egyptians may have calculated the size of the earth. This cannot be aserted with assurance by any means, I admit. Pythagoras, 6th C. BC thought the earth was round. He had studied in Egypt. See http://www.britannica.com/bcom/eb/article/4/0,5716,108974+3,00.html
for an account of Eratosthenes 3rd C. BC experiment measuring the size of the earth. He conducted this in Egypt, which is an ideal location for the experiment.

I do have to admit that calculations for the size of the earth (and thus the approximate curvature) are probably lacking for 4th dynasty Egypt. Again, we have yet to determine with certainty what curvature if any is exhibited by the casing stones on the pyramid. To summarize - we have an incredible “cooincedence” between an undetermined quantity and another which is infinately variable over a range.

The Greeks also made “flat” surfaces slightly cuvrved to make them appear straight at a distance. The reason for making any curve is probably aesthetic.

As far as the center of the land mass issue - The idea that it is an incredible “cooincedence” that the pyramid was built where it was, may be misleading. What is meant by land mass? If you go to the website in question and look at the graphic, you will see that the pyramid IS NOT centered on the map as they show it. If you compensate for the areas towards the edges that are water and recenter the entire map - the pyramid is STILL not centered on the land mass. Keep in mind that Antarctica is not included (do we or don’t we include it??)

Another idea refuted by the photographic evidence on the Great Pyramid site. The Great Pyramid is located to the right of a photo with the pyramid of Mycerinus (Menkhaure) in the center, appeating taller. It is taller, less pyramid, higher base. The idea that the building of either had to wait for extensive excavation to get to the bedrock is absurd.

Mycerinus’ pyramid was built on an uneven base, one side supported by an outcropping of rock, probably easily visible to the naked eye in that time.

Great works - yes. “Impossible?” - I’m not convinced.

When they find the 3rd companion of Sirius predicted by the Dogon (and as yet unfound unlike the dwarf companion that was discovered nearly 100 years BEFORE the Dogon were interviewed) I will belive that there are visitors from Sirius that assisted in the buildings of that period.

A question for the peanut gallery - What exactly is the connection between Sirius (Sothis - an avatar of Isis) and the mythological figure of the dog? Calling it the Dog Star, as well as the Chinese designation of Sothis as the “Wolf Star”??? While Set, the brother of Isis can be seen as a dog, there are numerous Rennaissance references to dogs in association with Venus and Aphrodite - Isis’ European counterparts.
This is a true mystery which remains unanswered - except of course by the KLF.
Interesting imperfections - neither the king’s nor the queen’s chamber are located on the center point of the pyramid, nor are they located sufficiently off center to alleviate the weight load.

The Orion’s belt hypothesis has a mythographic justification - Orion was equated with Osiris. However this configuration would have taken over 200 years to realize.

42

One further comment that might put some broad issues in perspective -

“Due to gradients, the ramp would have to be significantly larger than the pyramid itself.”

While it probably did wrap around the pyramid, making ramps and other earthworks that were very large was common. Obelisks were raised by towing them up huge ramps that were sometimes half as tall as the obelisk, so it could be “dropped” into the socket.

The Egyptians were obsessed with creating structures that were meant to last for millenia. They were clear on what that meant as they had a continuous culture of at least 1000 years before the Great Pyramid was built. They understood what was required to make something last for at least a millenium, and they (at least those in charge) were not averse to what we see as ridiculous amounts of effort to acheive these goals.

Filling and removing ramps for construction is a very common practice in ancient architecture and continued later in areas where wood was scarce.

And finally to beat a dead horse, quoting from the Great Pyramid site - “Since the
Earth has enough land area to provide 3 billion possible building sites for the Pyramid, the odds of it’s having
been built where it is are 1 in 3 billion.”

Apart from the contention that the site chosen IS actually the “center of the earth”. Pyramids cannot be built in many areas of the globe, surely not anywhere. We would eliminate unihabited areas, which at the time were extensive, marshes, etc. We might however EXPECT to see a pyramid built on bedrock, in an ancient time (as pyramids are structurally easier than cathedrals for eample - and are ubiquitous in the ancient world), by a powerful kingdom with grain and time to spare - voila, Egypt and there IS a pyramid there - what a cooincidence!
If we create a data base of every possible “miraculous” site, choosing every possible point, continental centers, highest regional spots, modern meridians, etc. we will no doubt find our cherished buildings sitting right on top of one of them. In spite of this, judging from their own illustration on the Great Pyramid site - their choice of a match is in fact wrong.
The chances that I will be born exactly as I am in my body in this time are a zillion to one - yet I exist. This “logical” formula can be applied to anything with mirculous results - “Isn’t it amazing that I found this thing exactly where I found it!”

Not chance - design.

43

Neobican wrote:

The two big ones are perfectly aligned with what? Any two arbitrary points form a line, you know.

Or are you saying that the faces of the two big pyramids point in the same directions?

44

GS:
The numbers have certainly been selected and manipulated in a manner which suggests the author was interested only in finding evifence to support his claim(s).

Whether or not he lied about the numbers depends on how strict a definition of “lie” that you wish to use. When I was at West Point, any statement made or information withheld with an intent to deceive was judged a lie. Under this definition, yes, I believe he lied.

Under the definition used by the current (and several past) Commander-in-Chief, no he didn’t lie.

RobRoy:
Excellent post, but I am afraid you broke the rules. The agreement was that we limit ourselves to one error at a time.

Now go to your room and don’t come out until you have watched “Secret of the Sphynx” enough times to believe it.

The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*

45

Woldduke!

Studies in Ancient Technology Volume III by R. J. Forbes, published byE. J. Brill, Leiden, Netherlands C. 1965.

Get the chapter headings:
Comsetics and Perfumes in Antiquity
Food, alcoholic Beverages, Vinegar
Food in Classical Antiquity
Fermented Beverages 500 BC- 1500 AC
Crushing, Grinding, Pounding, Fire-Setting
Salts, Preservation processes, Mummification
Paints, Pigments, Inks and Varnishes

And with all that to offer, it’s no wonder my uncle hocked the book: Alcoholic beverages, Fremented beverages, Fire-setting, Mummification, Varnishes- everything he likes.

The series might have information of tools used with granite and you might see/find rock cutting and rock moving information.

Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.

46

Well Tracer, what I mean is that if you see an overhead pic of all 3 pyramids, the 2 larger ones align as if they could be the corners of a square, the smaller 3rd pyramid does not fit into this shape at all. One would think that if they made 2 line up, why not the third? For instance, if you draw a straight line through the great pyramid, and straight through the second, it will miss the third one. Just like the stars in Orions belt. I am not saying space aliens built the things, but they were placed that way to match the stars. Since I am not sure how to post a pic, I do have one if anyone wants to see it, email me.

Dhanson - wacky theories? History shows many scholars were actually correct even though the public thought they were crazy… does Copernicus come to mind? Have you been to Egypt? Studied the Sphinx for yourself? Are you a professional egyptologist or archeologist? Robert Bauval has been at his work for what… 20 years? So you don’t care to believe him fine, you probably haven’t read his book either.

“Wow! Spider-Man! Are you really friends with the X-men?”
"Not since Cyclops tried to use my viewmaster."
(Marvel Team Up #1)

47

This is based on something I read many, many years back, so unfortunately I cannot offer a specific site for this. However, I once read the theory of (IIRC) a French archaeologist who pointed out that the debris field buried in the sand to the south of the pyramid site contained a large number of rope sections with knots or loops in the ends. Buried along with them were semi-circular wooden thingies resembling partial discs, with a groove running circumferentially between the outer edges. The archaelogist suggested that these wheel-like sections were tied in groups of four to the ends of the pyramind blocks, so that the blocks acted as ‘axles’ and allowed the stones to be rolled into position. When placed approximately as desired, the bottom sections were knocked out, then the stones were moved into their final place using prybars of wood. This, according to the archaeologist, made the construction of the pyramid much quicker than modern estimations have concluded, allowing much more time for finishing touches. Also, it required much less wood in toto than moving the blocks on wooden rollers, etc.
IIRC, this theory was attacked by other archaeologists who said the ‘wooden sections’ were actually ‘chocks’ for holding the blocks in temporary positions and the rope sections were simply pieces of rope that had broken off and been discarded, or were artifacts of later construction/refurbishing. However, from that date to this I have never subsequently seen this theory brought up; perhaps because it was considered to be thoroughly debunked at the time. I offer it here only for the sake of completeness, and because it seemed at the time (despite the debunkings) to be an ‘elegant’ way around some of the problems of other proposed techniques.

48

Ok, that’s a lot o info, thankyou all. I shall be following up your references and will let you know if what appears fairly awesome becomes a little more mundane under scrutiny sigh