# So How Will Fox Spin OBL Death? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 2, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451 "2011-05-02T04:21:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/101 "2011-05-03T05:27:11Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > JT, > > When reading a newspaper, what order do you think people like at the contents? > > Could it be something like: > Picture, then headline, then caption then actual story? I already addressed your point. YES, undiscerning readers will jump to conclusions based on the pictures without properly evaluating the content. That’s a given. It also has jack squat to do with the issue of whether the Fox News website displayed a pro-Bush, anti-Obama slant. Some undiscerning readers (including some Dopers, apparently) may jump to this conclusion based on the photographic content, but that’s their own darned fault. Careful readers know better than to draw judgments based primarily on pretty pictures. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/102 "2011-05-03T05:28:57Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > WTF are you talking about? The military can only run missions in foreign countries. What the hell do you think they are for? Unless of course you are confusing “special forces” with the CIA. Fine…more precise language is obviously needed. Permission was sought and given for this mission presumably otherwise it would have been an act of war? Does the attitude of Obama vs that of Bush play into that permission being forthcoming? I do seem to remember Bush being denied permission for some missions… ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/103 "2011-05-03T05:31:47Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > If I wanted to influence people towards a certain view - I would certainly use the headline and / or photo to do it - even if that headline was out of step with the actual article, or the article provided a more balanced picture. Okay. Earlier today, I pointed out that the Fox News website had a large banner at the very top of its website, saying “Watch Live President Obama Speaks About Bin Laden’s Death at Medal of Honor Ceremony”. At that very same time, the story about Bush was nowhere to be seen on its front page. Using your logic, should we not conclude that Fox was trying to present its readers with a pro-Obama slant? Or does this logic only apply when it supports the liberal Doper’s preferred conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/104 "2011-05-03T06:11:44Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Okay. Earlier today, I pointed out that the Fox News website had a large banner at the very top of its website, saying “Watch Live President Obama Speaks About Bin Laden’s Death at Medal of Honor Ceremony”. At that very same time, the story about Bush was nowhere to be seen on its front page. > > Using your logic, should we not conclude that Fox was trying to present its readers with a pro-Obama slant? Or does this logic only apply when it supports the liberal Doper’s preferred conclusion? Or perhaps it only applies when the headline is about the man that is currently head of the nation rather than a previous president? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/105 "2011-05-03T11:03:28Z")
> [@NiceGuyJack](#): > > It’s true that the military executed the mission, and that it’s an American victory, but to not give credit where credit is due is just ridiculous. > It’s like saying, Osama Bin Laden wasn’t responsible for 9/11 since he didn’t fly planes into the World Trade Center. He just planned it and took full responsibility. > Obama certainly deserves full credit for his role as Commander in Chief and ordering the mission. Of course. Here’s how I replied: > [@](#): > > Yes, Obama deserves credit. It was Obama who decided to launch a special forces mission, when his advisors from the military were suggesting a drone attack. And if the mission had ended in disaster, Obama would have been blamed, just as surely as Carter was blamed for the failed 1980 mission to rescue the hostages in Iran. So if you would have blamed Obama for failure, then credit him with the success. I figure it’s better to go for persuasion rather than confrontation in these situations. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/106 "2011-05-03T11:18:18Z")
So two pages into this important issue, how had Fox been spinning it? How has MSNBC been spinning it? Did they invite Olbermann back to discuss the Assasination Squad that got him? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/107 "2011-05-03T11:22:39Z")
Here’s the answer to the OP: [Fox goes uber left – I mean, right --, errr, libertarian](http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201105020014). :eek: > [@](#): > > Fox Business’ Napolitano: Bin Laden “Killed On The Illegal Whim Of The President” [That’s Judge Andrew Napolitano.](http://www.alterpolitics.com/politics/video-judge-napolitano-interviews-donald-rumsfeld-did-you-sell-saddam-hussein-wmds/). The one who questioned our authority and reasoning in invading Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/108 "2011-05-03T13:22:46Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/109 "2011-05-03T13:28:47Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Or perhaps it only applies when the headline is about the man that is currently head of the nation rather than a previous president? That response makes no sense and you know it. Spin is spin, whether it’s about a current president or any other public figure. Look, you insinuated that [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com) was manipulating its readers because, at one particular period in its newsday, it had a photo of GWBush (way down at the bottom of its site, BTW) and no photos or other prominent attention given to Obama. The fact, however, is that Obama WAS featured prominently – just not at that particular moment. News sites change their content everyday; indeed, every few hours, if possible. So there were times when Obama was much more prominently featured, and a time when he was not. So why did it have a photo of Bush, but not of Barack? The only reason that Bush’s photo was shown is because that particular news story was about his response to the death of Bin Laden. Even that story was all about his praise for the current President – hence the prominent subheadline, “Former president commends his successor and the military on ‘this momentous achievement’.” You are REALLY, really stretching if you think that this particular example aptly illustrates some devious plot to manipulate the readers into accepting a pro-Bush, anti-Obama viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/110 "2011-05-03T14:10:20Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Keep wishing. Dude, if we’ve learned anything from all this, One Friedman Unit is enough time for EVERYTHING to change. And for all the little girls to get ponies. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/111 "2011-05-03T14:36:47Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > You are REALLY, really stretching if you think that this particular example aptly illustrates some devious plot to manipulate the readers into accepting a pro-Bush, anti-Obama viewpoint. Devious plot? No. Open and above-board goal? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/112 "2011-05-03T14:44:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Devious plot? No. > Open and above-board goal? Yes. And right now the four big headlines are… “What about…The photo?” (apparently they’re “just asking questions” already) “With Usama Dead, Will Obama Bet — or Cash Out?” (implying he’s all about the politics of it) “Bush-Era Gitmo Tactics Helped Nail Bin Laden” (Goooooo torture!) “Pakistan Denies Sheltering Bin Laden Amid Skepticism” (something everyone can agree on and even Pakistan knows is bullshit) -Joe ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/113 "2011-05-03T15:01:54Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Fine…more precise language is obviously needed. > > Permission was sought and given for this mission presumably Your presumption is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/114 "2011-05-03T16:07:21Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > “Bush-Era Gitmo Tactics Helped Nail Bin Laden” (Goooooo torture!) This is the most odious one - and needs to be pushed back on very strongly. Many stories have come out detailing the intelligence gathering, and all confirm that the courier’s name was _not_ obtained under torture but rather under traditional interrogation. In fact, the name gathered under torture was incorrect. One cite: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap\_on\_re\_us/us\_bin\_laden\_hunt\_for\_bin\_laden](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110502/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden_hunt_for_bin_laden) Key quote: > [@](#): > > Mohammed did not reveal the names while being subjected to the simulated drowning technique known as waterboarding, former officials said. He identified them many months later under standard interrogation, they said, leaving it once again up for debate as to whether the harsh technique was a valuable tool or an unnecessarily violent tactic. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/115 "2011-05-03T16:08:40Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > And right now the four big headlines are… > > “What about…The photo?” (apparently they’re “just asking questions” already) Oh, please. The article in question simply says, “The Obama administration is weighing whether to release photos and video footage that show the body of Usama bin Laden, a decision that could quell conspiracy theories but also incite violence.” There’s nothing inappropriate about that, and it hardly amounts to “just asking questions.” You’re extrapolating way too much based on that simple question. > [@](#): > > “With Usama Dead, Will Obama Bet — or Cash Out?” (implying he’s all about the politics of it) Did you even bother to read the subheadline? It says, “As the president takes victory lap over terror leader’s death, what does it mean for military ops abroad?” The story is about military tactics, not politics. > [@](#): > > “Bush-Era Gitmo Tactics Helped Nail Bin Laden” (Goooooo torture!) Now that, I’m willing to admit, is better evidence of a pro-Bush slant. That’s still not the same as outright spin though, and it’s a legitimate story. Failing to address this would be a fairly serious omission, especially in light of the controversial nature of such tactics. (Heck, we’re discussing that very same topic in another GD thread.) > [@](#): > > “Pakistan Denies Sheltering Bin Laden Amid Skepticism” (something everyone can agree on and even Pakistan knows is bullshit) Again, legitimate news. It’s neither pro- nor anti-Obama, nor is it pro- or anti-Bush. It’s a simple declaration of news, one that even [Reuters](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/03/columns-us-binladen-idUSTRE7410D320110503)has covered. As you yourself admitted, nobody seriously disagrees on this matter. Once more, I’m not saying that Fox doesn’t have its bias. News agencies generally do. These particular headlines don’t do a very good job of demonstrating either outright spin or any “open and above-board goal,” though. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/116 "2011-05-03T16:32:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > They’re going to give credit to Bush They’ll say Ronald Reagan is they guy who really deserves the credit. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/117 "2011-05-03T16:35:29Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > There’s going to be right wing outrage Monday over bin Laden’s body being handled “according to Islamic tradition.” A lot of those deranged fanatics _still_ think Barack Obama was born in Kenya. They will start saying that the whole thing is a hoax, and that Osama bin Laden is still alive. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/118 "2011-05-03T16:37:13Z")
The creep is finally dead. That’s what matters. Anything else is just window dressing and side shows and political BS. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/119 "2011-05-03T16:52:37Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > They’ll say Ronald Reagan is they guy who really deserves the credit. Just the opposite, ISTM - the lefties are the ones always blaming the rise of ObL on Reagan. Because he gave the Stingers to the Afghani rebels that assisted them in driving the Soviets out. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451/120 "2011-05-03T16:58:24Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Permission was sought and given for this mission presumably otherwise it would have been an act of war? Something is only an act of war if the other country is willing to treat it as one. I don’t think Pakistan really wants to declare war on us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-fox-spin-obl-death/580451.md?page=7)