# So, how will they fuck up the new Ghost Rider movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 15, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615 "2012-01-15T17:09:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/1 "2012-01-15T17:09:39Z")
First thing’s first: GR was one of the coolest ‘heroes’ that Marvel had going in the late 90’s IMO. The Midnight Sons were by far one of the coolest super teams, at least for an angsty teen, and I loved the whole run of the various books that made it up. However, the first Ghost Rider film that they released a few years ago was awful. They couldn’t decide if they wanted to play it straight or campy, and even while playing it straight it wasn’t anywhere near dark enough. Hell the first Batman movie with Jack as the Joker was waaaaaay darker than the first GR movie. So, teeming millions, what say you? Will the new GR movie rise to new heights? Or, will the inclusion of Christopher Lambert and the return of Nick Cage indicate that they’re going to continue urinating on one of my fondest childhood memories? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/2 "2012-01-15T17:12:33Z")
Well it _is_ hollywood, so…that’s not piss, it just raining. Yeah, best to think of it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/3 "2012-01-15T17:21:23Z")
Lambert and Cage haven’t done anything in the last 20 years to indicate that this movie will be anything but ass. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/4 "2012-01-15T17:24:40Z")
Lambert has \*never \*done anything good. Even Highlander was arguably good in spite of him, not because of him. He’s basically a walking “insert actor here” placard. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/5 "2012-01-15T20:16:01Z")
Yeah, my immediate reaction was, “Do you mean _besides_ casting Cage in the title role again?” ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/6 "2012-01-17T20:00:00Z")
By NOT putting Eva Mendes back in. If you’re gonna waste two hours of my time, at least put a hot babe in there, okay? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/7 "2012-01-17T22:06:15Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > By NOT putting Eva Mendes back in. If you’re gonna waste two hours of my time, at least put a hot babe in there, okay? Yeah but what does Eva Mendes have to do with having a hot babe in the movie? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/838e76/32.png) [@Smid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/8 "2012-01-18T17:55:09Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Lambert and Cage haven’t done anything in the last 20 years to indicate that this movie will be anything but ass. On one hand I disagree on Cage, what with Kickass, Lord of War, Face off, Leaving Las Vegas and Adaptation in there. Then I remember the last two Nicolas Cage movies I watched, Season of the Witch and Drive Angry (which I renamed ‘Rent angry’), and I definitely see your point. Without Kickass (which he’s not lead), I’d say 7-8 years… Lambert has never done anything good in the movie business. If you doubt this, go back and watch Highland again. Its dated BAD. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/9 "2012-01-18T18:13:41Z")
**FinnAgain,** apart from the undeniably cool visual, I’ve always had a hard time getting into Ghost Rider as a character. I’ve generally thought that a unique take on Johnny Blaze is that he’s a thrill-seeking risk-taker who is prone to jump into things without looking. Maybe a little foolhardy but definitely fearless. Which could account for his life as a stunt cyclist as well as doing something as head-slappingingly stupid as making a deal with the devil. That said, I’m not a die-hard follower and my take on the character could be a complete fabrication on my part. I’d be interested in hearing what you think are the characteristics that are crucial to the character, as someone who has an affinity for him. Also: Johnny Blaze vs. Danny Ketch? ---
**Author:** ![Barking\_Dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/10 "2012-01-18T18:40:22Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Yeah but what does Eva Mendes have to do with having a hot babe in the movie? > 😃 Hey now! Them’s fightin’ words son! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/11 "2012-01-18T23:40:20Z")
Sorry, been busy as all hell the last few days with work, I’ll try to get to the rest in a bit: > [@B.Serum](#): > > I’d be interested in hearing what you think are the characteristics that are crucial to the character, as someone who has an affinity for him. Also: Johnny Blaze vs. Danny Ketch? Ketch, all the way as that was my intro character to the series. I think it also matched up with what I see as the essential details. Namely, unlike characters like Spiderman who have a secret identity that they can just peel off when it suits them, the Rider is essentially chosen to bear the burden, and he doesn’t have a secret identity, he’s got a real dual personality. When the blood of the innocent was spilled Ketch didn’t so much choose to become Ghost Rider as he was compelled to do so, and once that transformation was complete he wasn’t Ketch with fancy super powers, but the Spirit of Vengeance had taken over his meatbag body and begun using it for its own purposes. In fact at times when Dan was grievously injured, the Rider itself was not only the dominant personality, but Dan was nearly too weak to even talk to it for long period of time. Which brings me to another essential detail, which is that the Rider isn’t about doing good and fighting evil. Hell, he’s not even really about fighting evil when you get right down to it. The Rider is about vengeance, pure and simple. His Penance Stare is not a way to fight bad guys, it’s a way to inflict the suffering that anybody has inflicted, be they good bad or in between, back on that person. The Rider is an agent of divine punishment (or demonic punishment, although they kind of retconned that with The Blood and the Siege of Darkness and…) But it’s not a way for the hero to live out his fantasies of justice and awesomeness, but for the vessel to become a conduit for Vengeance itself. Ketch was, himself, deeply ambivalent about the use of the Rider, both trying to use it to “fight crime” and being appalled at what the Penance Stare actually did to criminals. As a direct result of his using the rider, his sister was murdered by Blackout, almost in direct contradiction to Spidey’s lesson with his uncle. Ketch, multiple times through the series, wrestled with what it meant to be host to the Ghost Rider and whether or not he was willing to accept that burden. Blaze, on the other hand, never really interested me. A hothead thrill seeker who signed a deal with the devil because, hey, what the hell. (well, there was more to it than that, but still…) Blaze was an accomplice in his own situation, Ketch was acting with the Rider all but forced on him. Ketch, to me, always seemed a lot more human. /$.02 ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/12 "2012-01-19T00:16:06Z")
Nice! ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/13 "2012-01-19T19:08:41Z")
Saw a snippet about this in the ‘Pre-show entertainment’ at the movies day before yesterday (and about the ‘entertainment’ value, the less said, the better). Their entire thrust was, “We have a director who ROLLER BLADES WHILE HANGING ON TO A MOTORCYCLE! Isn’t that COOL?” Nothing about the plot of the movie, the characters, the setting, just shot after shot of how XTREME the director is. I’m pretty sure that tells me all I need to know about the quality of the film. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/14 "2012-01-20T01:51:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Lambert has \*never \*done anything good. Even Highlander was arguably good in spite of him, not because of him. He’s basically a walking “insert actor here” placard. Yeah… Lambert is pretty bland and Cage took his potential and… damn, I don’t even know what he did with it. I suspect it’s buried somewhere under a large rock. > [@ministryman](#): > > By NOT putting Eva Mendes back in. If you’re gonna waste two hours of my time, at least put a hot babe in there, okay? Well… I’d’ve been fine without any chicks in the movie at all. A good GR story isn’t really about T&A after all. Think about, say, Nolan’s Batman movies. The few gorgeous women who were there for a short bit of time were props and not eye candy. > [@ArrMatey](#): > > Saw a snippet about this in the ‘Pre-show entertainment’ at the movies day before yesterday (and about the ‘entertainment’ value, the less said, the better). Their entire thrust was, “We have a director who ROLLER BLADES WHILE HANGING ON TO A MOTORCYCLE! Isn’t that COOL?” Nothing about the plot of the movie, the characters, the setting, just shot after shot of how XTREME the director is. I’m pretty sure that tells me all I need to know about the quality of the film. Ugh. Ugh ugh. My inner child is holding his breath now until he turns blue. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/15 "2012-01-20T05:39:32Z")
I thought y’all would appreciate this quarry-worthy line from [tonight’s main article at Cracked.com](http://www.cracked.com/article_19635_6-absurd-movie-scenes-that-actually-happened.html): > [@](#): > > In _Face/Off_, John Travolta is an FBI agent and Nicolas Cage is a dangerous lunatic (he plays a terrorist). ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/16 "2012-01-20T07:41:42Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > On one hand I disagree on Cage, what with Kickass, Lord of War, Face off, Leaving Las Vegas and Adaptation in there. > > Then I remember the last two Nicolas Cage movies I watched, Season of the Witch and Drive Angry (which I renamed ‘Rent angry’), and I definitely see your point. Without Kickass (which he’s not lead), I’d say 7-8 years… > > Lambert has never done anything good in the movie business. If you doubt this, go back and watch Highland again. Its dated BAD. Well, I think that is just the point… with Nick’s recent choices as an artist he has brought himself down to the Chris Lambert calibre. Not, that there’s anything wrong with that, with the proper production and direction. I want to see a Tarantino Ghost Rider, that is my hope. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/17 "2012-01-20T18:01:40Z")
I do appreciate that they are using Blackout who is the one decent 90s Ghost Rider villain. I think he looks pretty cool in the previews. I’m hoping the fights are better. The first movie had a formula for each “boss battle” and as such got pretty boring. The European setting is somewhat odd. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/18 "2012-01-20T18:36:17Z")
Christopher Lambert will certainly help the film. I mean, the _last_ Marvel film he starred in was amazing, right guys? Guys? ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2012, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/19 "2012-01-20T18:41:43Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > Christopher Lambert will certainly help the film. I mean, the _last_ Marvel film he starred in was amazing, right guys? Guys? Which Marvel movie was Christopher Lambert in? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615/20 "2012-01-21T16:52:18Z")
He was never in a Marvel movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-how-will-they-fuck-up-the-new-ghost-rider-movie/609615.md?page=2)