# so I am on a lonely road in Florida **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 12, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281 "2013-07-12T03:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/1 "2013-07-12T03:00:27Z")
So I am on a lonely road in Florida and I shoot some guy dead. No witness of any kind. If I say he attacked me, how much chance is there that I would be charged? Should I be charged? What facts would affect those questions? I mean obviously if someone found my diary where I promised to kill the guy then I am in trouble. What if there was known animosity between us? What if I have got into a few random bar fights? What if the guy I shot was a priest? I have no idea why we both happened to be at that rest stop. But he totally attacked me. Just sayin ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/2 "2013-07-12T03:32:18Z")
What does the physical evidence say? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/3 "2013-07-12T05:02:57Z")
Both people have some skuff marks/abrasions on their arms and face. Powder marks indicate a close shot. Anything else you think is important? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/4 "2013-07-12T10:13:24Z")
It’s up to the prosecution to prove all the elements of the crime. If you’re not talking and the physical evidence doesn’t give them more information then they can’t succeed in making a case. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/5 "2013-07-12T10:28:00Z")
They may look at your message board posts. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/6 "2013-07-12T11:33:46Z")
After shooting did you contact the police and report what happened? How much time went by prior to your call? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/7 "2013-07-12T12:48:06Z")
Yes, I contact the police within half an hour - in my initial daze I forgot I had left my cell phone in my jacket in the car. And these message board posts do not form an admission of any kind other than he totally attacked me first when I had to shoot him. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/8 "2013-07-12T13:32:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Both people have some skuff marks/abrasions on their arms and face. Powder marks indicate a close shot. > > Anything else you think is important? Did you know the guy before this? Why did he attack you? What did he say to you, and what did you say to him, before he attacked you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/9 "2013-07-12T14:17:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Anything else you think is important? You don’t mention your race or that of the victim. Only a naïf would truly think they’re irrelevant in early 21st-century Florida. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/10 "2013-07-12T14:50:45Z")
We are both white. We’ve loudly argued in public before. I don’t know why he attacked me - I couldn’t understand what he was screaming at me. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/11 "2013-07-12T14:55:38Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > You don’t mention your race or that of the victim. Only a naïf would truly think they’re irrelevant in early 21st-century Florida. It’s sad that race is a factor in these things. OTOH, age, size, and strength of each party should be factors. If \*\*CarnalK \*\*is 25 years old and 6’ 6", and the dead guy is 95 years old and 5’ 2", \*\*CarnalK \*\*is going to have a tough road ahead of him… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/12 "2013-07-12T14:56:14Z")
What did you argue about before, and what did you argue about before he attacked you? Regards, Shodan PS - You have the right to remain silent. If you give up the right to remain silent, everything you say can and will be used against you on the SDMB. You have the right to an attorney, and to have one present during any questioning. If you so desire and cannot afford one, maybe **Bricker** will take pity on you. ---
**Author:** ![ethelbert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ethelbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ethelbert)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/13 "2013-07-12T15:19:08Z")
You have not mentioned whether this guy was armed. Knife? Gun? Skittles? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/14 "2013-07-12T16:04:09Z")
We are similar build/age. We argued mostly local politics. As I said I don’t know what set him off this time. He was not armed but he was trying to choke me. It’s all a bit of a blur bu when I pulled my gun he mght have tried to take it from me. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/15 "2013-07-12T16:08:24Z")
What did you say to each other before he attacked you? How about a more detailed account of what happened? Start about two hours before the attack. Tell about everything, relevant or not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/16 "2013-07-12T16:11:20Z")
Unless the media gets hold of the case and rants about it for days on end, you will probably not even be arrested. It is Florida after all. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/17 "2013-07-12T16:13:32Z")
Out of curiosity - do you need an answer fast? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/18 "2013-07-12T16:46:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Did you know the guy before this? **CarnalK** had never met the guy before this, but he _was_ a mortal enemy of this other guy that **CarnalK** had met on a train once… ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/19 "2013-07-12T18:38:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So I am on a lonely road in Florida and I shoot some guy dead. No witness of any kind. If I say he attacked me, how much chance is there that I would be charged? Should I be charged? What facts would affect those questions? > > I mean obviously if someone found my diary where I promised to kill the guy then I am in trouble. What if there was known animosity between us? What if I have got into a few random bar fights? What if the guy I shot was a priest? I have no idea why we both happened to be at that rest stop. > > But he totally attacked me. Just sayin The defendant has the burden of production for self-defense. That is, the prosecution does not have to disprove self-defense unless the defendant introduces some evidence tending to show self-defense. That evidence can be testimonial. This burden has been described as slight, and the fact-finder may not simply reject the defendant’s not-completely-impossible testimony that he needed to use self-defense without any rebuttal evidence. So, a defendant who testified that an otherwise docile old lady was about to kill him would have met his burden of production. A defendant who testified that an alien spacecraft landed and its occupants killed the victim would not have met his burden of production. Once the burden of production has been met, the burden of persuasion (disproving self defense beyond reasonable doubt) remains on the prosecution. The prosecution need not meet that burden with direct evidence, however. A case may be made exclusively with circumstantial evidence that rebuts the credibility of the claimant’s testimony and proves the elements beyond reasonable doubt. In order to sustain the conviction on appeal, a reviewing court must be able to point to some evidence (direct or circumstantial) that would reasonably support a fact-finder’s decision to find the defendant’s testimony not credible. A fact-finder may not simply decline to find a defendant credible without any evidence rebutting his testimony. This is the corollary of the rule that the defendant has the burden of production, but not persuasion, when asserting self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281/20 "2013-07-12T19:38:04Z")
Well what about this case, Kimmy\_Gibbler? ISTM that by your description, my burden HAS been met. I assume they wouldn’t try to charge me until they found something. What sort of evidence in a case like this could be used? I assume discovering I had some powerful motive for wanting the guy dead might do it. For Shodan: I was out hiking all afternoon. When I pulled up to the rest area he pulled in 2 minutes later. He screams “You gonna die for what you did”. I said “Hey hold on, friend. What has you so upset?” He growled and leaped at me, going for my throat. We grappled but I felt myself losing to him. Somehow I managed to get my gun out and shoot him. On reflection, he might have been mad that I was sleeping with his wife. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-am-on-a-lonely-road-in-florida/663281.md?page=2)