# So I busted up a political rally this week... **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 23, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115 "2010-04-23T16:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/21 "2010-04-27T13:45:33Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I am sorry, I don’t follow you here. If you sign paperwork on a legally binding contract saying that you won’t engage in prohibited behavior at a particular venue that you have reserved, and you go ahead and engage in that behavior anyway, you can just scream constitution? > > That sounds as looney as the people I kicked out. That’s right: it’s called viewpoint neutrality and it lies at the heart of the First Amendment. You can’t set aside a public forum only for views you approve of. Your contract wasn’t restricting behavior–it was restricting a viewpoint, namely, the promotion of racial discord. I dislike that viewpoint as much as you, but the government is not allowed to tell citizens that they cannot espouse that view or advocate for it in a limited public forum consistent with lawful time-place-and-manner restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/22 "2010-04-27T13:56:17Z")
A junior college is not the government. Like any organization, they can set up rules on the use of their facilities. I suggest you actually _read_ the first amendment before making generalizations about it. It only forbids the _government_ from making laws abridging the freedom of speech. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/23 "2010-04-27T14:01:06Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A junior college is not the government. Like any organization, they can set up rules on the use of their facilities. > > I suggest you actually _read_ the first amendment before making generalizations about it. It only forbids the _government_ from making laws abridging the freedom of speech. It is not a public forum, and I have to go with **Chuck** here and disagree with you. If I rent out Blue Ridge Community Center for zero dollars, and in the rental agreement it specifically states that I am not to hold a Klan rally, but I bust out the hoods anyway, I am breaking the terms of the signed contract free speech be damned. I don’t think it really works that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/24 "2010-04-27T14:03:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A junior college is not the government. Like any organization, they can set up rules on the use of their facilities. > > I suggest you actually _read_ the first amendment before making generalizations about it. It only forbids the _government_ from making laws abridging the freedom of speech. Well, let’s ask the OP–Is the college you work for a public or private institution? There are, after all, as many as three private junior colleges in Texas, all of which are more than 100 miles from Blue Ridge, so maybe Chuckles here is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/25 "2010-04-27T14:07:20Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > It is not a public forum, and I have to go with **Chuck** here and disagree with you. If I rent out Blue Ridge Community Center for zero dollars, and in the rental agreement it specifically states that I am not to hold a Klan rally, but I bust out the hoods anyway, I am breaking the terms of the signed contract free speech be damned. I don’t think it really works that way. Wrong. It works that way. Do you seriously think cities would allow the Klan to march in their towns—that Skokie would allow the Illinois Nazis—if all they had to do was add a line in their permit application reading “Rule \_\_\_: No Nazis under any circumstances!” The government can’t condition your use of a limited public forum on your acceptance of limitations on the viewpoints you can advocate. That’s _exactly_ what the First Amendment prohibits. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/26 "2010-04-27T14:25:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > A junior college is not the government. Like any organization, they can set up rules on the use of their facilities. > > I suggest you actually _read_ the first amendment before making generalizations about it. It only forbids the _government_ from making laws abridging the freedom of speech. I think he knows that. He’s just baselessly assuming that the junior college is run by the state. It might be, or it might not be. There doesn’t seem to be anything indicating one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/27 "2010-04-27T14:29:49Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Wow, Kimmy, unless you’re a member of that group - and it sounds like you quite possibly are - then you’re just Monday morning quarterbacking here. Maybe you should stay under the bench if that’s your best judgment. Nice. **Kimmy** obviously failed to establish her liberal bona fides strongly enough; there should have been three or four sentences decrying the hatefulness of the group before daring to suggest that maybe there might possibly be a First Amendment issue in play. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/28 "2010-04-27T14:40:21Z")
[_Good News Club v. Milford Central School_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Club_v._Milford_Central_School) is also apposite here. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/29 "2010-04-27T14:41:23Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nice. > > **Kimmy** obviously failed to establish her liberal bona fides strongly enough; So distaste for racists is only a liberal thing now? Thanks for clarifying. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/30 "2010-04-27T14:43:55Z")
Regardless, in the paperwork that all must sign, we reserve the right to end hospitality services to anyone at anytime at our sole discrection… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/31 "2010-04-27T14:54:14Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > Regardless, in the paperwork that all must sign, we reserve the right to end hospitality services to anyone at anytime at our sole discrection… That may well be. But if you’re a public entity, the exercise of your discretion based on the political viewpoint of the group may be violative of the First Amendment. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/32 "2010-04-27T15:01:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > That may well be. But if you’re a public entity, the exercise of your discretion based on the political viewpoint of the group may be violative of the First Amendment. I maybe dense, but I fail to see how someone screaming nigger into a microphone at my students is a political statement. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/33 "2010-04-27T15:02:06Z")
> [@NicePete](#): > > So distaste for racists is only a liberal thing now? Thanks for clarifying. No, distaste for racists is an across-the-board thing. Insisting on displaying your politically correct views before your legitimate criticism is accepted? That just might be a liberal thing. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/34 "2010-04-27T15:17:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No, distaste for racists is an across-the-board thing. > > Insisting on displaying your politically correct views before your legitimate criticism is accepted? That just might be a liberal thing. So it’s not a liberal thing, it’s a “politically correct” thing to dislike racists? OK. Does that mean you think anti-racism is not an “actually correct” thing and instead something people say just for political expedience? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/35 "2010-04-27T15:28:08Z")
> [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > I maybe dense, but I fail to see how someone screaming nigger into a microphone at my students is a political statement. The government may not regulate use of words based on hostility–or favoritism–towards the underlying message expressed. Of course, it might be argued that this particular usage falls into the “fighting words” exception, but from the overall description it seems to me that this group, a “…semi local third party ultra conservative political group…” that offered up, in addition to the n-word, “…other mixed calls of ‘welfare’ and ‘anti-christ president’ and ‘socialism.’” It seems highly unlikely to me that you can now focus myopically on that one word, when the bulk of your complaint obviously came from the whole package. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/36 "2010-04-27T15:30:35Z")
> [@NicePete](#): > > So it’s not a liberal thing, it’s a “politically correct” thing to dislike racists? OK. Wow. Did you not see this line from me: > [@Bricker](#): > > No, distaste for racists is an across-the-board thing. > [@](#): > > Does that mean you think anti-racism is not an “actually correct” thing and instead something people say just for political expedience? No. But insisting that people announce their dislike for racists before delivering their analysis of the First Amendment issues in play is a political expedience thing. I suspect you’re going to have a hard time comprehending the difference, but try. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/37 "2010-04-27T15:32:32Z")
And, Kimmy, I’d look more to R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul than to Good News Club, simply to avoid the distraction of the religious angle. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/38 "2010-04-27T15:54:32Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > [_Good News Club v. Milford Central School_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Club_v._Milford_Central_School) is also apposite here. The difference I see here is that the group using the space at the junior college was never barred from using the space based on their politics, viewpoint, charter, or something like that. It wasn’t even a case where a group is granted access and then access revolked because someone doesn’t like their views. The group became confrontational with another group on campus and that’s what crossed the line. So, it sounds like up until now, they’ve been allowed to use the space and had just this one meeting shut down because things got out of hand; a situation that could easily have turned violent. You yourself state: > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > But the facts are what they are; and alas, absent an physical intimidation or imminent disorderly conduct… So to me, it sounds like shutting down that one meeting was the right thing to do. Now, the complete banning of all political groups might be another matter… ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/39 "2010-04-27T16:00:05Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > But the facts are what they are; and alas, absent an physical intimidation or imminent disorderly conduct, I don’t think you made the right call. > [@Translucent\_Daydream](#): > > The man with the microphone on the podium said “Who let the niggers in?” followed by a cheer, and other mixed calls of “welfare” and “anti-christ president” and “socialism”. So I got called and had to break them up. I had to shut off the AV system and the police got called, and I was told “I was going to get mine commie.” I’d hate to see what you consider disorderly conduct if you think that was perfectly okay. Racial slurs and namecalling have nothing to do with political views; they were immediate attacks on folks who showed up in the room by an innocent mistake. ---
**Author:** ![NicePete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee7513/32.png) [@NicePete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NicePete)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115/40 "2010-04-27T16:47:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I suspect you’re going to have a hard time comprehending the difference, but try. I suppose what I’m having a hard time with is the snide attitude you take toward people who have an emotional response toward racism. Characterizing their reaction with the buzzwords “political correctness” tends to indicate contempt for their attitude. Of course, it must be nice as a “conservative” not having any groupthink going on or any platitudes you have to espouse prior to getting to the meat of a discussion, especially in the political arena. You guys can say whatever you want whenever you want! Unless it’s critical of Rush. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-busted-up-a-political-rally-this-week/537115.md?page=3)