# So, I finally bought the Simarillion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [April 12, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795 "2009-04-12T01:54:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/41 "2009-04-16T13:05:59Z")
Who would you cast?? I mean you can pick a hunk to be Beren, but what woman can step into the role of the most beautiful woman ever??? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/42 "2009-04-16T13:15:19Z")
I’ve got a copy of **Unfinished Tales** if anyone wants it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/43 "2009-04-16T13:55:13Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Who would you cast?? I mean you can pick a hunk to be Beren, but what woman can step into the role of the most beautiful woman ever??? If they made it soon, Kate Beckinsale maybe with the Galadriel glowy effect. By the time a script could be done and they could start filming though they would have to find someone younger. She would probably be 40+. They would and to find a young willowy actress that at least looked tall and could act. I’m sure they can find someone. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/44 "2009-04-16T14:52:56Z")
I think my opinion of the Silmarillion is somewhat obvious. > [@What\_Exit](#): > > I wonder why? The estate is extremely cagey about selling the rights to _anything_. This began a long time ago, when JRRT was essentially ripped off by ACE. There is nothing the estate can do about LotR and the Hobbit rights, as they were sold by JRRT personally decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/45 "2009-04-16T15:30:40Z")
The _Silmarillion_ is pretty dry stuff, and I think Allen & Unwin were right to turn it down in the 1950s - they would have lost money on it. Unlike the hobbits, there are no characters with which the reader is invited to identify. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/46 "2009-04-16T15:36:14Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I’ve got a copy of **Unfinished Tales** if anyone wants it. I meant to add, PM me and I can post it out to the first PMer who wants it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/47 "2009-04-16T15:51:37Z")
In criticizng the Silmarillion as we have it, I think we have to remember that Christopher Tolkien was faced with a very difficult choice as his father’s literary executor. What Allen and Unwin got and rejected in ca. 1950 was a lot of what’s been published in HOME – long narrative poems, myths told out at epic length like “Tuor and the Finding of Gondolin”, etc. There was public demand for the Silmarillion to be published, but Tolkien had never completed it as a unified entity (other than some early drafts he’d expanded on greatly). He chose to put together the whole story at the length of the early drafts from various of his father’s writings, to keep it as one narrative with a consistent level of detail. This meant that the amount of detail in the “completed” portions, such as the Turin and Tuor stories, had to be held back to what was only extant in more precis form, such as the march across the Helcaraxe and the March of the Valar that ends the Silmarillion proper. This may have been a mistake, as the interest in the “long form” stories shows, but one can hardly play Monday morning quarterback with 20/20 hindsight on what was clearly a difficult choice made under fan and publisher pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/48 "2009-04-16T17:26:12Z")
I, too, would love to see the tale of Beren and Luthien made into a movie. The story of the Silmarils themselves could also be done as a terrific adventure of bloody revenge and rash oaths. Or Sauron’s subversion of Numenor and Elendil’s and the Faithful’s escape. There are a lot of good stories in there. And if the Tolkiens think the Professor got ripped off decades ago, jeez, Hollywood is full of lawyers and agents who’d be glad to drive a diamond-hard bargain for the estate now. The LOTR movies did so well, and the cinematic _The Hobbit_ is so widely anticipated, I think the sky’s the limit: director, script and casting approval, front-end profits, merchandising, etc. It would make them very wealthy and please a lot of Tolkien fanatics… like me. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/49 "2009-04-16T17:35:58Z")
I think the Ainulindale, Valaquenta, and the battles for Beleriand, especially the War of Wrath, would be good fodder for a full-length or longer Anime-style animation feature. The stories in between, I don’t think are fleshed out enough to do justice to them individually. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/50 "2009-04-16T17:53:07Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I think the Ainulindale, Valaquenta, and the battles for Beleriand, especially the War of Wrath, would be good fodder for a full-length or longer Anime-style animation feature. The stories in between, I don’t think are fleshed out enough to do justice to them individually. On behalf of Tolkien Fans and the Estate, Ack! No Anime crap, Tolkien despaired of even Disney getting hold of his work. Anime would be far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/51 "2009-04-16T19:25:05Z")
Well, I shied away from the recent Lord of the Rings wargames because they would water down my appreciation for the original work of art. But if you could ever play the Valar in a LotR wargame, it would pass right into “so cheesy that it’s cool again” territory and I’d have to play it 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/52 "2009-04-16T20:34:17Z")
If the Silmarillion ever hit the screen, it’d have to be a miniseries. There’s too much there to really fit into a movie. The tale of Beren and Luthien, or the Children of Hurin, would by themselves be about the right length for a full movie, but they’d be a bit lost without the context of the rest. “I kept my oath. My hand now holds a Silmaril.” Big deal; why should we care about a Silmaril? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/53 "2009-04-16T20:51:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If the Silmarillion ever hit the screen, it’d have to be a miniseries. There’s too much there to really fit into a movie. The tale of Beren and Luthien, or the Children of Hurin, would by themselves be about the right length for a full movie, but they’d be a bit lost without the context of the rest. “I kept my oath. My hand now holds a Silmaril.” Big deal; why should we care about a Silmaril? Well, depending on the auteur’s take, I don’t see that as an invalid feeling upon hearing that line. I for one do think there is a component of folly in all of the questing after such objects. Although granted a “preview” scene in the beginning like for LotR would let you know the history behind them, even if there’s nothing that could show up on screen that could equal the beauty of them. (Although perhaps if you show a flashback to the first couple wars for Beleriand, where the elves still fought with the Fire of Aman in them, you could have them, or at least their eyes, sparkle with some of the same effect you see a bit when you see a Silmaril.) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/54 "2009-04-16T21:03:31Z")
Turin’s story should be made into an opera. It’s got all the required elements: deaths of major characters, including the protagonist, complicated story line, gorgeous settings that would require imaginative staging, and a pompous ass who eventually sees the light at the end for the eponymous character. Too bad Puccini never had a chance at Turin. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/55 "2009-04-16T21:21:03Z")
I adore _LOTR_ and have read the books (and _The Hobbit_) multiple times I picked up _Silmarillion_ and \*snore \* Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2009, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/56 "2009-04-16T22:31:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I think the Ainulindale, Valaquenta, and the battles for Beleriand, especially the War of Wrath, would be good fodder for a full-length or longer Anime-style animation feature. The stories in between, I don’t think are fleshed out enough to do justice to them individually. Actually, it’s the stories in between that are the most fleshed out – just not in the published volume _The Silmarillion_. See _Unfinished Tales_ and the multi-volume _History of Middle Earth_. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/57 "2009-04-17T02:50:39Z")
I agree that a brief flashback/establishing scene a la Sauron’s emergence from Barad-dur in the beginning of FOTR would probably suffice to set the stage for a movie that focused on a relatively small part of _The Silmarillion._ Either Hayao Miyazaki (_Spirited Away, Kiki’s Delivery Service, Laputa_, etc.) or Pixar could do a kickass Tolkien movie, IMHO. But I’d prefer a live-action movie, given my druthers. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/58 "2009-04-18T13:04:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If the Silmarillion ever hit the screen, it’d have to be a miniseries. Hell, I’d love to see the next iteration of _LOTR_ as a miniseries. They could trim that long slog through _The Two Towers_ a bit, though. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/59 "2009-04-18T14:20:25Z")
How about a mini-series of “Return of the Shadow”? 1st episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk, & gets scared by Gandalf who looks rather black and mysterious on his horse, from a distance! 2nd episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with some friends, & gets scared by Gandalf who looks rather black and mysterious on his horse, from a distance! 3rd episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with a slightly different set of friends, and gets scared by a black rider. 4th episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with a slightly smaller, slightly different set of friends, and gets scared by a black rider, then has a slightly uncomfortable encounter with an unpleasant person named Moggot. 5th episode: Bingo Baggins (oh hell, you get the drift). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795/60 "2009-04-18T14:29:56Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > How about a mini-series of “Return of the Shadow”? > > 1st episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk, & gets scared by Gandalf who looks rather black and mysterious on his horse, from a distance! > > 2nd episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with some friends, & gets scared by Gandalf who looks rather black and mysterious on his horse, from a distance! > > 3rd episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with a slightly different set of friends, and gets scared by a black rider. > > 4th episode: Bingo Baggins sets out on a walk with a slightly smaller, slightly different set of friends, and gets scared by a black rider, then has a slightly uncomfortable encounter with an unpleasant person named Moggot. > > 5th episode: Bingo Baggins (oh hell, you get the drift). Ah _Groundhog Day_ but with an Evil Ring instead of a pretty news producer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-bought-the-simarillion/492795.md?page=4)