# So I finally got around to watching Star Wars... I regret that decision. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 19, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292 "2011-08-19T06:54:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/41 "2011-08-19T15:35:01Z")
I really am looking forward to the OP’s opinion of _The Phantom Menace_. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/42 "2011-08-19T15:47:01Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I really am looking forward to the OP’s opinion of _The Phantom Menace_. Rest assured if I ever get around to watching it I will present a full report. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/43 "2011-08-19T15:51:46Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > The two most well-known lines from the film (“may the force be with you; I am your father”) led me to believe that there was something actually meaningful about them, but man, was I wrong. If you think “I am your father” is meaningless, you really weren’t taking in the story at that point. It’s a big reveal from Luke’s point of view, as he doesn’t just have to deal with the fact that he is related to pure evil, and therefore corruptable himself, but also that his beloved mentor lied to him. I can understand why your personal reaction was ‘meh’ as you weren’t enjoying it, but it’s a massive moment in the story arc. > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Just for reference, what are some of your fave movies, now and from around then? I’m just curious. I’m equally curious. What are your favorite films, and are there any popcorn style ones you like? > [@Sitnam](#): > > And as was pointed out by the Pizza Rolls guy… I’m what now? > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I really am looking forward to the OP’s opinion of _The Phantom Menace_. 🙂 Who was the reviewer that did a side-by-side of Star Wars and the The Phantom Menace? Does anyone have a link please? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/44 "2011-08-19T16:05:56Z")
[The Red Letter Media (aka “Pizza Rolls Guy”) review of Episode 1](http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/). Which IMO is a lot more entertaining than Episode 1 was. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/45 "2011-08-19T16:26:47Z")
one has to keep in mind what was the movie scene prior to that, lots of critically acclaimed, serious and even dour films. Great movies, of course, The Godfather(s), One flew over the cuckoos nest Deer Hunter, Network. The old time cinema as pure entertainment was largely missing. Jaws had brought it back somewhat the summer before, but Star Wars was an event, and being part of it was the appeal in many ways. Also, we had just pulled out of Vietnam a few years before, the economy wasn’t exactly going gangbusters, Watergate. Basically folks were desperate for some escapism and Star Wars provided that in spades. Add to that the special effects, which were groundbreaking at the time. I don’t think anyone truly thinks it is a GREAT movie in the sense of the Godfather, but it is great entertainment. Unfortunately, for someone who has not seen it until now, I can easily see how the expectations would be unbelievably high and make it seem boring or a disappointment. ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/46 "2011-08-19T16:32:28Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Just for reference, what are some of your fave movies, now and from around then? I’m just curious. Before I answer this, some background for those that can’t believe I went 30 years without watching Star Wars. My parents were not big tv watchers, my dad would watch the news every night, and my mom wouldn’t watch much of anything. We didn’t have cable. I left home at 19, and didn’t even own a tv for a couple of years. When I got married we bought a tv with some rabbit ears, and since neither my nor my wife were big tv watchers, were content with that. We would rent a movie once or twice a month. It’s just been in the past year and half or so that we’ve had satellite, so I’ve been catching up. Now then. Some of my favorite movies are pre-1950. King Kong, Casablanca, Citizen Kane are at the top of my list. A lot of actors can make or break a movie. Same with directors. Cary Grant was simply awesome in almost everything he did (The Grass Is Greener being an exception. That one sucked). I haven’t seen all of Hitchcock’s films, but the ones I have seen I loved. Hitari, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Shootist were the only good John Wayne movies I’ve seen, and my FIL loves John Wayne, so I’ve seen a lot of his stuff. Not a big fan of western, but enjoyed Butcher Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, as well as Tombstone. Plus the two Wayne films already mentioned. Also liked Jeremiah Johnson, but that’s not really a western per se. I’ve always liked dramas, and those are too numerous to list. I feel the same way about comedies. Abbot & Costello are great. So is Jim Belushi. As far as sci-fi, the stuff that I have seen and enjoyed that I can think of off the top of my head is Close Encounters, the Back to the Future trilogy, 2001, the original Planet of the Apes, The Thing, Andromeda Strain, and Stargate. There are a lot of famous movies I have yet to see. The Godfather and Gone Wih the Wind come to mind at the moment. I can’t think of any movie I’ve ever watched that I’ve sat down preparing myself to be disappointed. I think because Star Wars is SO famous, I just expected something more. I’m also wondering if Star Wars success at the time not only because of the special effects and Lucas’ directing style, but because SW was essentially all he did as a director. This sorta over the top, in-your-face effects and directing style was limited to SW, so at the time, and for a while afterward, there was nothing else that compared to it. And, since Lucas directed Star Wars and that’s about it, audiences weren’t given a chance to see this style in anything but Star Wars. Does that make sense? For instance, if Lucas had directed Close Encounters or E.T., we might have seen these effects in other films, and SW would have been part a group of similar-styled films, rather than the singular phenomenon they became. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/47 "2011-08-19T16:33:12Z")
I remember Nikon’s Nikkor lens ads, that off the shelf lenses for their 35mm SLRs were used by the special effects crew. Big two page ads in my photog mags. I loved PotA in theater, but 2001 left me a little bored. SW (before any ANH stuff) blew me away from the opening scene. At the time, I was very big into the big three of pop sci-fi authors, so this type of story and all the little things really added up for me. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/48 "2011-08-19T16:37:20Z")
BTW, re-watching the original trilogy now… well, I don’t. I’ll watch bits of flipping thru cable, but that’s about it. I’ve seen bigger and better since then. Kind of like “experimenting” with my first naked GF, I’ve seen bigger and better since, but at the time, WOW! ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/49 "2011-08-19T16:44:00Z")
Missed edit. The only films that I simply will not watch is blood-and-guts horror movies. I’ve been a caregiver for ten years, and seen blood-and-gut injuries in real life, and twice have done post-mortem care on someone who died from such injuries. Yeah. FUCK THAT. What possible entertainment value do those movies have?! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/50 "2011-08-19T17:04:33Z")
> [@Lancia](#): > > Abbot & Costello are great. So is Jim Belushi. _spit take_ Did you mean “John Belushi”? ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/51 "2011-08-19T17:11:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > _spit take_ > > Did you mean “John Belushi”? Right :smack:. From Animal House. His SNL stuff was before my time. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/52 "2011-08-19T17:18:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is Star Trek (presumably, the TV show at that time) less cliched or characters less shallow? Roddenberry himself called it “Wagon Train in Space”. So what is wrong with Wagon Train? (Actually, I don’t know, I’ve never seen Wagon Train. Is it known for weak plots and shallow characterization? If so, Roddenberry was not being fair to himself, but I very much doubt that that was the comparison he intended.) > [@Peremensoe](#): > > The “cliched” aspect was largely deliberate, and with different expectations can be seen as a strength. It’s a _myth_; these resonate _because_ of their repetition of archetypal figures and situations. The “tropes and themes” were far older than '50s serials. Ah I see! The plot is feeble and obvious _on purpose_. It is _meant_ to be bad. :rolleyes: Actual myths are not shallow at all, they are full of complexity, ambiguity and depth (unless, perhaps, you are only familiar with the highly abridged and expurgated precis that are made for children). If Star Wars is meant to be an “artificial” myth then, certainly for me, it utterly fails, because its world has no depth and its plot has no moral ambiguities or shades of gray. (That may improve a bit by the time we learn that Vader is Luke’s father, but there is no hint of that in the first movie, which is the one that I am talking about, that turned me off the whole franchise.) For successful fake myth, compare LOTR (the book especially, although the movies work too), or maybe the earlier _Dune_ books. They have depths like the Marianas trench. Star Wars barely gets your toes wet. > [@ralph124c](#): > > Like all such movies, it is a product of its time. > What looked fresh and new in 1977 is pretty dated today. But I saw it in 1977. It looked thin and stale to me then. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/53 "2011-08-19T17:29:38Z")
**Lancia** , you mentioned that your wife and kids were out of town. Maybe you should have watched it with your kids. Have they seen it? They wouldn’t be so jaded and might get into it a little more and you might have been able to watch it through their eyes. Not that you’ll likely be watching it again yourself, but give your boys a chance to see it. Star Wars is better off when shared than sitting at home by yourself and watching it. I was 20 in 1977 when I saw it in the theater and I dragged my younger brother with me when I went to see it again. He was blown away. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/54 "2011-08-19T17:42:24Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > So what is wrong with Wagon Train? (Actually, I don’t know, I’ve never seen Wagon Train. Is it known for weak plots and shallow characterization? If so, Roddenberry was not being fair to himself, but I very much doubt that that was the comparison he intended.) As I understand the story, “Wagon Train to the stars” was Roddenberry’s pitch to the networks when he was trying to get them to understand what kind of show _Star Trek_ was going to be. Before _Star Trek_, as I understand it, SF on TV fell generally into two types: silly kids shows and anthology shows. Roddenberry had to give network execs something they could wrap their minds around, so he described his new show in terms they could grasp: recurring main characters who deal with obstacles while traveling from place to place in a weekly episodic series. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/55 "2011-08-19T17:48:59Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > **Lancia** , you mentioned that your wife and kids were out of town. Maybe you should have watched it with your kids. Have they seen it? They wouldn’t be so jaded and might get into it a little more and you might have been able to watch it through their eyes. Not that you’ll likely be watching it again yourself, but give your boys a chance to see it. Star Wars is better off when shared than sitting at home by yourself and watching it. I was 20 in 1977 when I saw it in the theater and I dragged my younger brother with me when I went to see it again. He was blown away. In my (albeit limited) experience, younguns these days are _not_ impressed by Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/56 "2011-08-19T18:07:40Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Actual myths are not shallow at all, they are full of complexity, ambiguity and depth (unless, perhaps, you are only familiar with the highly abridged and expurgated precis that are made for children). If Star Wars is meant to be an “artificial” myth then, certainly for me, it utterly fails, because its world has no depth and its plot has no moral ambiguities or shades of gray. (That may improve a bit by the time we learn that Vader is Luke’s father, but there is no hint of that in the first movie, which is the one that I am talking about, that turned me off the whole franchise.) > > For successful fake myth, compare LOTR (the book especially, although the movies work too), or maybe the earlier _Dune_ books. They have depths like the Marianas trench. Star Wars barely gets your toes wet. The _Lord of the Rings_ film is several times the movie than _Star Wars_ (the original) is, though only a reduced approximation of the book. Of course that’s a much _richer_ world, a more _detailed_ story. But I think you’re mistaken in suggesting that it’s much more morally complex. Evil in Tolkien’s work, as in Lucas’, is _elemental_. The symbology of the “dark lord” is overt. Characters may struggle between the moral poles, but ultimately everyone is redeemed or corrupted. In _The Power of Myth_, Joseph Campbell acknowledged _Star Wars_ as an example of [monomyth](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth). Luke Skywalker is one of the Hero’s thousand faces just as Odysseus and Beowulf and Frodo. I’m curious what “actual” myths you’re thinking of. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/57 "2011-08-19T18:14:05Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > In my (albeit limited) experience, younguns these days are _not_ impressed by Star Wars. Well my limited experience with my two nephews is that they are nuts for Star Wars. I believe the younger one is even going to some sort of Star Wars acting camp (don’t ask, that’s all I know). God forbid you get some Star Wars fact or line wrong in their presence. And they did not get it from their parents, that is for sure. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/58 "2011-08-19T18:23:27Z")
IMO many of the people who dislike _Star Wars_ do so because it doesn’t resemble other science fiction. That’s because [stealing a line from Harvey Plinkett] _Star Wars_ **isn’t** science fiction, it’s science fantasy. It’s a classic hero epic, which happens to take place on multiple planets and in space. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/59 "2011-08-19T18:32:33Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Ah I see! The plot is feeble and obvious _on purpose_. It is _meant_ to be bad. :rolleyes: Straightforward does not equal bad, and there is nothing feeble about the plot. Would you agree that it’s moral simplicity makes it an ideal children’s film? And do you not think that high quality works for children can be enjoyed by adults? Lucas was strongly influenced by [Joeseph Campbell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell), in particular [The Hero with a Thousand Faces](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces). It was a conscious attempt to tap into the power of myth. Here’s a Lucas quote: > [@](#): > > I [Lucas] came to the conclusion after American Graffiti that what’s valuable for me is to set standards, not to show people the world the way it is…around the period of this realization…it came to me that there really was no modern use of mythology…The Western was possibly the last generically American fairy tale, telling us about our values. And once the Western disappeared, nothing has ever taken its place. In literature we were going off into science fiction…so that’s when I started doing more strenuous research on fairy tales, folklore, and mythology, and I started reading Joe’s books. Before that I hadn’t read any of Joe’s books…It was very eerie because in reading The Hero with a Thousand Faces I began to realize that my first draft of Star Wars was following classic motifs…so I modified my next draft [of Star Wars] according to what I’d been learning about classical motifs and made it a little bit more consistent…I went on to read ‘The Masks of God’ and many other books. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292/60 "2011-08-19T18:36:42Z")
I saw the first Star Wars in grad school & enjoyed it alright. saw no reason for any sequels then or now. (except for making $ of course). I thought the light sabers were dumb, and in the later films the limb-chopping-off gets repulsive. (forced to see sequels w/friends. ewoks - ugh. really?) What I really dislike is the over-hyping. Oh how mythical it all is! - bleah. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-i-finally-got-around-to-watching-star-wars-i-regret-that-decision/593292.md?page=4)